>So I left, since there was literally nothing I could do.

BUT YOU CAN DRAG!!
And totally carry bodies.
And, uh, scout. Or something. I dunno. Have I missed any of the talking points for 'invasions suck till you're 100+ circle' counterpoints yet?

>>Can't use any ambushes on them because they are immune to them all.
>>Can't be shoved.

This is true for flying creatures. The young wyverns don't fly, but the rest of them do and have all of the properties normal for flying creatures.

>>My weapons which hit anything in the game and anything in test with good and better hits, never landed anything more than harmless hits
>>He also has some of the top ranks in the game for his guild, so he should be hitting, and definitely killing over time.

Wyverns vary in their skill levels based on what type of wyvern they are. Looking at the skills of the PC in question, they should be able to hit several of the types of wyverns just fine, but, like almost everyone in the game, will not find this to be true for the highest level types of wyverns.

>>including after other people stunned them with spells, or completing massive combos... every hit:

Anyone who is in the very upper skill levels for offenses and is wanting to fight the highest types of wyverns but feeling as though they can't do so may want to talk to the groups who have been bringing them down. I've been pretty impressed by watching the teamwork going on there, and there have been a lot of really effective strategies figured out already! Many of these have taken PCs who were getting harmless hits or outright missing and worked out how to get the wyvern to the point where those PCs were able to hit them. The highest level wyverns are extremely tough.

-Persida

I don't get what flying had to do with anything.

amb clout

Quietly, you raise your left hand up to your side, and in a single, fluid movement chop straight at the bone wyvern's neck!
You are unable to surprise the bone wyvern with your sneak attack!
Your hand sails right through the a bone wyvern, to no effect.
Loggrim's hand sails ineffectively through the a bone wyvern.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

amb slash

Hamstring a bone wyvern? Novel idea, but it's a ghost!

amb stun
Coldcock a bone wyvern? Novel idea, but it's a ghost!

I'd like to point out that it wasn't incorporial to any other attacks, just ambushes.

>Anyone who is in the very upper skill levels for offenses and is wanting to fight the highest types of wyverns but feeling as though they can't do so may want to talk to the groups who have been bringing them down.

I couldn't hit it any harder than harmless, Squanto couldn't hit it any harder than harmless. Our combos weren't debuffing its armor at all despite being massive to armor. We stood there swinging and hitting for like 5 minutes almost never missing, but always getting harmless, and it took obviously no wounds since harmless is literally harmless.

Only thing it ever took damage from was magic, I have a nice log of an entire fight from a bone wyvern from start to finish.

Not a single person there ever did even a single light hit of physical damage. It was 100% magical damage only.

>>I don't get what flying had to do with anything.

Since prior to this you hadn't specified the problem you were having was with the bone wyverns, which are both flying and undead (and the highest level wyvern), it seemed as though you were saying it was a more global issue with all of the wyverns. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Most types of wyverns fly (and are not undead), and certain types of attacks don't work on creatures that are currently flying. Thank you for including data in this post that can be used to determine what you were actually seeing with more accuracy. Like I'd said earlier, without that, attempting to address your concerns is really very needle in a haystack.

In this case, you were attempting to do these things to an undead creature. Certain attacks don't work on certain types of undead, so I suspect this is what you're seeing since they have bones that can be hit by regular attacks, but not the types of organs needed to be effected by certain special abilities. We'll poke at them and take a look to be sure that they're behaving in all of the correct ways for the type of undead that they are. Did you happen to BUG report this in game? If not, it would be handy if you do so and were as specific as possible in the bug report, so that we can work with concrete information to attempt to replicate exactly what you're seeing.


>>I couldn't hit it any harder than harmless, Squanto couldn't hit it any harder than harmless. Our combos weren't debuffing its armor at all despite being massive to armor. We stood there swinging and hitting for like 5 minutes almost never missing, but always getting harmless, and it took obviously no wounds since harmless is literally harmless.

>>Not a single person there ever did even a single light hit of physical damage. It was 100% magical damage only.

Bone wyverns are the very highest level of these creatures. They are extremely hard. Looking at the offensive skills of your character, this description of straight physical attacks not being very effective sounds correct for an encounter with them without significant debuffing provided by others who are using skills with ranks more within their skill range. This is not me saying anything negative about your character, they really are just that hard.

Non-magical combos seem to be working fine to debuff them in the live observations I've done, but we can certainly give them a closer look in a more controlled environment. It would be extremely helpful if you could give the exact combos that you were using that you found ineffective, what types of weapons you were using, stats, ranks, and the usual specifics either here or in the bug report. If something isn't acting the way it's set up to, even if it's in a small subset of encounters, we want to find it, but we really do need very specific information to be able to do that very well.

Thank you for providing more information. We'll take a look.

As for the wyverns, I think you could have a lot of success with the non-bone varieties if you have any interest in resuming your fight with them!

-Persida

Will thief ambushes still have the same physical limits once they become a supernatural ability in 3.1?

>Will thief ambushes still have the same physical limits once they become a supernatural ability in 3.1?

Yes. Supernatural is not used in the sense of 'ghosts and ghouls' in this instance. It is used in the sense of 'something above normal physical limitations'. Much like berserks and forms are simply manifestations of barbarians use of...whatever, drool? I don't know, anyway, a thief khri/ambush is simply the result of intense training and meditation.

It is 'super' natural in that it is above and beyond what base model humans are capable of, it is 'above' the natural.

Think, as much as I loathe this, of ninjas. They have tons of training and some neat tricks, but nothing to scream 'ghostbuster'.

I haven't seen them damaged more than glancing etc by anything other than blufmor garaen. It certainly isn't all magic owning them. I'm better off with my weapons than magic as a MM. I haven't got to throw OP SLS at them yet though.

I think this complaint might actually be "the critter is too damage-proof, period." Maybe I'm wrong though and it's just all MM spells that suck. I wonder if holy TM does particularly well also.

For my part, I get really annoyed seeing all "glancing" hits. I'd rather see us hit a "super tough boss critter" a little better than that, but with the critter having many more hitpoints so that it lasts as long as the bone wyvern does now with all glances. Not sure the math will do that.

Minor gripe though for my part, I've had a lot of fun with all of them.

>but with the critter having many more hitpoints so that it lasts as long as the bone wyvern does now with all glances.

Hitting something with harmless, brushing or glancing strikes will never kill it, there is zero damage from these hits, no vit damage, no wound damage.

Hitting something only this hard will never, ever, harm it, let alone kill it.

Kodius confirmed this recently.

That was my point.

180 physical attacks that hit (many of which from blessed 2HE weapons), from some of the absolute highest people in the game, netted exactly a grand total of zero damage.

>Good. This means that they've finally made creatures that will scale all the way to the top; that they've made something that might actually remain challenging right to the rank cap.

Except they aren't, they are killable (quite easily) with specific magic spells.

Those and Aesrela Everild for sure, and someone else just said they can hit it with Smite Horde, but I haven't seen that so I don't know if its doing as much damage as the rest.

As far as if those spells are broken or not... I don't really know... but it sounds like maybe that's the conversation we should be having instead.

Altho, if you think about that, lets say those spells are broken and shouldn't be hitting, that would mean bone wyverns are intended to be 100% unkillable?

That doesn't seem right either.

>AE is a DFA spell

If by DFA you mean appears as bolts of holy fire raining down from the heavens then yes, you could call it DFA.
If by DFA you mean bypasses armor and/or shield, then no, it is not a DFA spell.

>>Since when? It's always been DFA as far as I know.

Not for a year at least. Pretty sure that changed with 3.x

Samsaren

If I recall correctly, AE was at one time a DFA, yes; however, it has not been one since at least as late as the 3.0 release.

>http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/DFA

Looks correct for the most part. I don't believe FoU is DFA either. It was considered DFB (death from below) at its original release but since it was updated to no longer hit only areas touching the ground I think it lost that status.

Nope happy to say trails have been found leading in and up into the Wyvern Mountain just West of Shard.

Keep in mind what that does to your local environment. A small pond welcomes some big fish. Just be aware of what you ask for.

>>Keep in mind what that does to your local environment. A small pond welcomes some big fish. Just be aware of what you ask for.

True story.

That said, I know its technically across borders but there IS the new stuff in Dirge just a hop skip and swim away, as well as Misenseor Abbey and all its jollies. That said I'd love to see the Xala'Char chaps from test pop out near Riverhaven in Live. Those were neat.

Samsaren