Greetings,
Bastard swords should no longer reset to HE mode when you drop, put, get, sheathe, etc.
-Ssra
DR-SSRA
BARIEN
Re: Bastard Swords
07/09/2004 11:15 AM CDT
>>Bastard swords should no longer reset to HE mode when you drop, put, get, sheathe, etc.
Thanks Ssra, I'll have to check it out later. Does this affect all swappable weapons? I know there some that are swappable that not just HE/2HE.
Brabs
Fighting with a bunch of archers in Geni.
"Hey, it's shoot GENI, not shoot GEN!"
Ambassador Genneron, of M'riss
[Arcath] "Public Service Announcement: Please shoot at the archers and not at Arcath"
Thanks Ssra, I'll have to check it out later. Does this affect all swappable weapons? I know there some that are swappable that not just HE/2HE.
Brabs
Fighting with a bunch of archers in Geni.
"Hey, it's shoot GENI, not shoot GEN!"
Ambassador Genneron, of M'riss
[Arcath] "Public Service Announcement: Please shoot at the archers and not at Arcath"
DR-SSRA
Re: Bastard Swords
07/09/2004 11:16 AM CDT
<<Does this affect all swappable weapons?>>
No. Only bastard sword-like items at this time.
No. Only bastard sword-like items at this time.
ALLGUILDS
Re: Bastard Swords
07/10/2004 04:26 AM CDT
Quit spammin' the boards, Ssra! <runs fast>
Player of Raydell, among many others.
Player of Raydell, among many others.
MMCSW69
Re: Bastard Swords
08/28/2004 11:02 PM CDT
<<Bastard swords should no longer reset to HE mode when you drop, put, get, sheathe, etc.
-Ssra>>
Why? What was wrong with it before? I never know which mode my blade is in now when I "get" it from my sword belt, until I swap it just to check. Today it actually cost me my life. I got my first death in Celpeze because I was working multi with three in HE rather than 2HE. The balance difference got me several bleeders before I killed them (I checked everything, except the dang blade when I drew it as I put up my scim) and went to the autoempath (where I got a vit death as he took a dang break).
"Fixing" something that wasn't broken. Before this we always knew what we were grabbing, everyone did, you took a known and made an unknown out of it. All I can figure out we got for doing this is something extra to do when we draw it. Sure its convenient for those folks that use only one blade on the swappable weapon. But, that is not what it is designed for so why cater to that? Which is exactly what this does. If you use both blades regularly and swap between em then you know what I am saying.
Sleigher
-Ssra>>
Why? What was wrong with it before? I never know which mode my blade is in now when I "get" it from my sword belt, until I swap it just to check. Today it actually cost me my life. I got my first death in Celpeze because I was working multi with three in HE rather than 2HE. The balance difference got me several bleeders before I killed them (I checked everything, except the dang blade when I drew it as I put up my scim) and went to the autoempath (where I got a vit death as he took a dang break).
"Fixing" something that wasn't broken. Before this we always knew what we were grabbing, everyone did, you took a known and made an unknown out of it. All I can figure out we got for doing this is something extra to do when we draw it. Sure its convenient for those folks that use only one blade on the swappable weapon. But, that is not what it is designed for so why cater to that? Which is exactly what this does. If you use both blades regularly and swap between em then you know what I am saying.
Sleigher
LAUGHINGGOD
Re: Bastard Swords
08/28/2004 11:25 PM CDT
Hail!
While I've never had the incident like Sleigher, I usually have to do the switch-a-roo to find out if I'm using my bastard sword as HE or 2HE. I was thinking it'd be nice if you did something like this:
>wield bast sword
You draw out your bastard sword from the weapon harness, gripping it with one hand.
(If you previously used it as HE)
>wield bast sword
You draw out your bastard sword from the weapon harness, gripping it with both hands.
(If used previously as 2HE)
Don't know if that'd be a ton of code or whatever...but I think it's kinda silly for me to do the switch-a-roo to make sure I'm using a bastard sword as a HE or 2HE.
Heh, another thought...include a one-handed or two-handed grip for other weapons (bo stick and quarterstaff come to mind, as bo stick is one handed and most other QS are two handed).
Just a couple beat up copper kronar,
Kalkomar Axebiter
While I've never had the incident like Sleigher, I usually have to do the switch-a-roo to find out if I'm using my bastard sword as HE or 2HE. I was thinking it'd be nice if you did something like this:
>wield bast sword
You draw out your bastard sword from the weapon harness, gripping it with one hand.
(If you previously used it as HE)
>wield bast sword
You draw out your bastard sword from the weapon harness, gripping it with both hands.
(If used previously as 2HE)
Don't know if that'd be a ton of code or whatever...but I think it's kinda silly for me to do the switch-a-roo to make sure I'm using a bastard sword as a HE or 2HE.
Heh, another thought...include a one-handed or two-handed grip for other weapons (bo stick and quarterstaff come to mind, as bo stick is one handed and most other QS are two handed).
Just a couple beat up copper kronar,
Kalkomar Axebiter
ARCELEBOR
Re: Bastard Swords
08/29/2004 10:26 AM CDT
Personally, I've just gotten in the habit of swapping the sword whenever I start to use it to see what mode it is in. Takes two seconds at the beginning of combat or whenever you forget (if you tend to switch a lot). So I don't think it's too bad but if they wanted to make life easier I like the following ideas:
1) Changing the wield messaging to reflect the sword's mode.
2) Adding a verb that checks the mode without messaging the rest of the room.
> turn my sword
You tighten your one-handed grip on your sword.
Arcelebor
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
1) Changing the wield messaging to reflect the sword's mode.
2) Adding a verb that checks the mode without messaging the rest of the room.
> turn my sword
You tighten your one-handed grip on your sword.
Arcelebor
"Back off, man. I'm a scientist."
BARDESS1
Re: Bastard Swords
08/29/2004 06:18 PM CDT
From the other side of it, those of us who use the sword way more as 2he find it to be a real pain that it switches out of it everytime we put it away. Either way they went on this one people gonna be upset.
However, additional messaging to indicate current usage would be nice.
Rej
However, additional messaging to indicate current usage would be nice.
Rej
NAMEK
Bastard Swords RT
09/29/2008 02:35 AM CDT
I saw someone replied to this thread stating that they got 3/4 with their 24 str 24 agi, and I was wondering if anyone could suggest approximately how much strength and agility I would need to get 3/4 on the following weapon:
A bastard sword is a heavy edged melee-ranged weapon.
You are certain that it could do:
poor puncture damage
great slice damage
low impact damage
You are certain that the sword is fairly balanced and is fairly suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.
A bastard sword is a two-handed edged melee-ranged weapon.
You are certain that it could do:
low puncture damage
severe slice damage
fair impact damage
You are certain that the sword is reasonably balanced and is reasonably suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.
You are certain that the bastard sword is well constructed, and is in pristine condition.
The bastard sword is made with metal.
The bastard sword feels light.
You are certain that the bastard sword is worth exactly 10000 lirums.
It weighs 36 stones, and according to the weapon roundtime calculator that was linked, the worst possible combination of balance and suitability should give me 28 effective strength, which according to the chart, is what I need to wield the weapon. Now I realize the site said the calculator is not 100% accurate, but if someone knew approximately how much strength and agility is needed to get 3/4 RT's with this weapon, I'd appreciate a response. My strength and agility are currently 30(str) and 26(agi) which is giving me 4/6 RT.
A bastard sword is a heavy edged melee-ranged weapon.
You are certain that it could do:
poor puncture damage
great slice damage
low impact damage
You are certain that the sword is fairly balanced and is fairly suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.
A bastard sword is a two-handed edged melee-ranged weapon.
You are certain that it could do:
low puncture damage
severe slice damage
fair impact damage
You are certain that the sword is reasonably balanced and is reasonably suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.
You are certain that the bastard sword is well constructed, and is in pristine condition.
The bastard sword is made with metal.
The bastard sword feels light.
You are certain that the bastard sword is worth exactly 10000 lirums.
It weighs 36 stones, and according to the weapon roundtime calculator that was linked, the worst possible combination of balance and suitability should give me 28 effective strength, which according to the chart, is what I need to wield the weapon. Now I realize the site said the calculator is not 100% accurate, but if someone knew approximately how much strength and agility is needed to get 3/4 RT's with this weapon, I'd appreciate a response. My strength and agility are currently 30(str) and 26(agi) which is giving me 4/6 RT.
MATTHEWN
Re: Bastard Swords RT
09/29/2008 08:13 AM CDT
For the 35 stone variety you need a 28 effective strength for a HE weapon to get 3/4. For the 36, I believe you need a 29 average. For reference..
HE/2HE
21 Effective strength for 3/4 on 21 stone weapons.
21 stone broadsword
24 Effective strength for 3/4 on 28 stone weapons.
28 Stone bastard sword, Elven Longsword
28 Effective strength for 3/4 on 35 stone weapons.
Standard Crossing broadsword, Standard Longsword [34 Stones]
31 Effective strength for 3/4 on 40 stone weapons.
Forged broadswords and bastard swords
35 Effective strength for 3/4 on 47 stone weapons.
Standard SCC Bastard Sword.
I only use 2HE/HE for my characters so I've done extensive testing on this and the only one I'm not 100% sure on is the 40 stone but I believe that's accurate. Hope it helps.
HE/2HE
21 Effective strength for 3/4 on 21 stone weapons.
21 stone broadsword
24 Effective strength for 3/4 on 28 stone weapons.
28 Stone bastard sword, Elven Longsword
28 Effective strength for 3/4 on 35 stone weapons.
Standard Crossing broadsword, Standard Longsword [34 Stones]
31 Effective strength for 3/4 on 40 stone weapons.
Forged broadswords and bastard swords
35 Effective strength for 3/4 on 47 stone weapons.
Standard SCC Bastard Sword.
I only use 2HE/HE for my characters so I've done extensive testing on this and the only one I'm not 100% sure on is the 40 stone but I believe that's accurate. Hope it helps.
JMF90
Re: Bastard Swords RT
09/29/2008 02:23 PM CDT
You can't get exact numbers on forged weapons because the appraisals are a range. If the RT calculator says you should be getting lower RT already and you aren't you're probably just a few points away. I know that isn't all that helpful, but short of seeing the actual numbers that's about as good as you'll get.
For instance (made up numbers)
dismally 1-10
poorly 11-20
fairly 21-30
reasonably 31-40
etc
So if you have a forged bastard sword it might appraise fairly/fairly but the actual numbers might be 21/30 meaning it is much more suited to strength.
Hope that helps.
For instance (made up numbers)
dismally 1-10
poorly 11-20
fairly 21-30
reasonably 31-40
etc
So if you have a forged bastard sword it might appraise fairly/fairly but the actual numbers might be 21/30 meaning it is much more suited to strength.
Hope that helps.
DRAGOONSEAL
Re: Bastard Swords RT
09/29/2008 10:15 PM CDT
Appraisal read outs are a range.
If the balance and suited on the bastard sword were EXACTLY even, you have an effect strength of 30(STR) + 26(AGI) / 2 = 28.
Since you do not have the RT drop that would come at 28 effective strength on a 36 stone HE/2HE weapon, it means that you have 27.4 effective strength or less (it rounds). Which means that your bastard sword is more balanced than it is suited for strength, even though you don't see it with a general appraisal. So your 26 agility is being weighted more than your 30 strength for that weapon.
If you were curious, the formula I figured out for calculating effective strength (and never get credit for -_-) is exactly:
((Strength * Suitability) + (Agility * Balance)) / (Suitability + Balance)
The trick is figuring out the exact/approximate number value for weapon suitability or balance. If a RT calculator says you could have a RT drop but you don't get it, training up just like 1 more point in strength or agility will likely get you the RT drop. Or if you just keep your agility/strength exactly even, that will always be your effective strength regardless of the weapon used.
Oddly enough, my math tells me that with a 36 stone f/f r/r bastard sword, you should be getting a RT drop with 30 strength and 26 agility regardless of where in the listed ranges the balance and suited of that sword are. I think that you need to recheck things, because logic tells me that either your appraisal is wrong ('certains' can still be off, if you can barely get a certain), your strength/agility is lower than what you listed, or your weapon is actually heavier than 36 stones.
Dragoonseal
If the balance and suited on the bastard sword were EXACTLY even, you have an effect strength of 30(STR) + 26(AGI) / 2 = 28.
Since you do not have the RT drop that would come at 28 effective strength on a 36 stone HE/2HE weapon, it means that you have 27.4 effective strength or less (it rounds). Which means that your bastard sword is more balanced than it is suited for strength, even though you don't see it with a general appraisal. So your 26 agility is being weighted more than your 30 strength for that weapon.
If you were curious, the formula I figured out for calculating effective strength (and never get credit for -_-) is exactly:
((Strength * Suitability) + (Agility * Balance)) / (Suitability + Balance)
The trick is figuring out the exact/approximate number value for weapon suitability or balance. If a RT calculator says you could have a RT drop but you don't get it, training up just like 1 more point in strength or agility will likely get you the RT drop. Or if you just keep your agility/strength exactly even, that will always be your effective strength regardless of the weapon used.
Oddly enough, my math tells me that with a 36 stone f/f r/r bastard sword, you should be getting a RT drop with 30 strength and 26 agility regardless of where in the listed ranges the balance and suited of that sword are. I think that you need to recheck things, because logic tells me that either your appraisal is wrong ('certains' can still be off, if you can barely get a certain), your strength/agility is lower than what you listed, or your weapon is actually heavier than 36 stones.
Dragoonseal
NAMEK
Re: Bastard Swords RT
09/30/2008 02:06 AM CDT
First off, I would like to thank everyone for all the helpful responses. I appreciate the input and assistance in trying to figure out what I need to do.
On the issue of my appraisal being off, or my numbers being uncertain, I understand reason for doubt. But I assure you my strength is 30, my agility it 26, and my weapon is indeed 36 stones (or about 36 stones according to MAMAS). I was told it was 36 stones when I bought it, I wrote that number down, and when I raised my agility to 26 and didn't get a RT decrease, I weighed the sword again to double check and it still told me it was 36 stones. The conclusion that I have reached is: according to the RT calculator that is most commonly used (I use http://www.sarvatt.com/RT.htm) whatever combination of high end or low end suitability and balance on my weapon, the calculator for effective strength does not factor in weapon type or weight even though the selection exists, that has yet to be incorporated into the function of the calculator. As further reinforcement to this conclusion, I quote the note at the top of the calculator:
"The Weapon Type and Weapon Weight boxes are non-functional at the moment, but eventually it will show the RT you should be getting if you provide that information. This calculator is not 100% accurate as we have no way of knowing exact numbers on most weapons, but the ranges that they fall under can be gleaned using compare. Keep in mind that this calculator rounds the effective strength number, and in some cases you might have to train one extra point in the corresponding stat"
Haha, after reading through this once more, I noticed something. "Javascript by Tanshar, modified by Sarvatt. Formula derived by Dragoonseal and Sarvatt." And here you said you were never honored with the discovery of that formula, Dragoonseal (grin). I am honored and extraordinarily appreciative that the discoverer of this formula would reply to my post.
~Thamm
Any further helpful input, if anyone feels it urgent enough to contact me or converse with me over this topic I can be contacted at AIM SN: ThammDR
On the issue of my appraisal being off, or my numbers being uncertain, I understand reason for doubt. But I assure you my strength is 30, my agility it 26, and my weapon is indeed 36 stones (or about 36 stones according to MAMAS). I was told it was 36 stones when I bought it, I wrote that number down, and when I raised my agility to 26 and didn't get a RT decrease, I weighed the sword again to double check and it still told me it was 36 stones. The conclusion that I have reached is: according to the RT calculator that is most commonly used (I use http://www.sarvatt.com/RT.htm) whatever combination of high end or low end suitability and balance on my weapon, the calculator for effective strength does not factor in weapon type or weight even though the selection exists, that has yet to be incorporated into the function of the calculator. As further reinforcement to this conclusion, I quote the note at the top of the calculator:
"The Weapon Type and Weapon Weight boxes are non-functional at the moment, but eventually it will show the RT you should be getting if you provide that information. This calculator is not 100% accurate as we have no way of knowing exact numbers on most weapons, but the ranges that they fall under can be gleaned using compare. Keep in mind that this calculator rounds the effective strength number, and in some cases you might have to train one extra point in the corresponding stat"
Haha, after reading through this once more, I noticed something. "Javascript by Tanshar, modified by Sarvatt. Formula derived by Dragoonseal and Sarvatt." And here you said you were never honored with the discovery of that formula, Dragoonseal (grin). I am honored and extraordinarily appreciative that the discoverer of this formula would reply to my post.
~Thamm
Any further helpful input, if anyone feels it urgent enough to contact me or converse with me over this topic I can be contacted at AIM SN: ThammDR
DRAGOONSEAL
Re: Bastard Swords RT
09/30/2008 02:57 AM CDT
>On the issue of my appraisal being off, or my numbers being uncertain, I understand reason for doubt. But I assure you my strength is 30, my agility it 26, and my weapon is indeed 36 stones (or about 36 stones according to MAMAS). I was told it was 36 stones when I bought it, I wrote that number down, and when I raised my agility to 26 and didn't get a RT decrease, I weighed the sword again to double check and it still told me it was 36 stones.
I dunno, got me then. If that appraisal is accurate then no matter where in those ranges the suited and balance fall I can't see you getting any less than about 27.6 effective strength, which should round up to 28, and give you a RT drop. Maybe I recall incorrectly and instead of rounding they just truncate the number, leaving you with 27. I'm almost completely positive they were rounded though..
>Haha, after reading through this once more, I noticed something. "Javascript by Tanshar, modified by Sarvatt. Formula derived by Dragoonseal and Sarvatt."
Oh, right. I forgot that one lists me, the other doesn't. That one irks me even more though, because over the course of a few days I figured out the formula on my own, with no help from Sarvatt. On his own Sarvatt developed his own formula (as did others), but his was wrong.
But then, that calculator is hosted by him on his own site, so I guess history is written by the victors, or some such.
Dragoonseal
I dunno, got me then. If that appraisal is accurate then no matter where in those ranges the suited and balance fall I can't see you getting any less than about 27.6 effective strength, which should round up to 28, and give you a RT drop. Maybe I recall incorrectly and instead of rounding they just truncate the number, leaving you with 27. I'm almost completely positive they were rounded though..
>Haha, after reading through this once more, I noticed something. "Javascript by Tanshar, modified by Sarvatt. Formula derived by Dragoonseal and Sarvatt."
Oh, right. I forgot that one lists me, the other doesn't. That one irks me even more though, because over the course of a few days I figured out the formula on my own, with no help from Sarvatt. On his own Sarvatt developed his own formula (as did others), but his was wrong.
But then, that calculator is hosted by him on his own site, so I guess history is written by the victors, or some such.
Dragoonseal
JMF90
Re: Bastard Swords RT
09/30/2008 04:54 AM CDT
>Maybe I recall incorrectly and instead of rounding they just truncate the number, leaving you with 27.
That is how concentration works.
That is how concentration works.
DRAGOONSEAL
Re: Bastard Swords RT
09/30/2008 06:23 AM CDT
>>Maybe I recall incorrectly and instead of rounding they just truncate the number, leaving you with 27.
>That is how concentration works.
It's certainly possible, however while developing my formula I distinctly remember determining that it rounds (at .5), because if it didn't my formula wouldn't of been accurate and I may of changed it or come up with something different.
In fact this is the first time since the STR/AGI RT changes that my formula hasn*'*t held up, through hundreds of times I've plugged numbers into it, and I've always thought that I figured out the exact equation the GMs used. It's been how many years since that change through? I suppose it could of been changed..
I'm debilitatingly sickly with a stomach flu, so I'm going chalk it up to my math being off tonight or something just being weird on Thamm's side. Bleh.
Dragoonseal
>That is how concentration works.
It's certainly possible, however while developing my formula I distinctly remember determining that it rounds (at .5), because if it didn't my formula wouldn't of been accurate and I may of changed it or come up with something different.
In fact this is the first time since the STR/AGI RT changes that my formula hasn*'*t held up, through hundreds of times I've plugged numbers into it, and I've always thought that I figured out the exact equation the GMs used. It's been how many years since that change through? I suppose it could of been changed..
I'm debilitatingly sickly with a stomach flu, so I'm going chalk it up to my math being off tonight or something just being weird on Thamm's side. Bleh.
Dragoonseal
SAUVA
Re: Bastard Swords RT
09/30/2008 07:27 AM CDT
Have you tried logging off and back on? Training stats while under the influence of stat boosting spells can mess things up. Maybe that's what's going on? Otherwise I'm outa ideas.
~Hanryu Ves'Shomis
Sword of House Calibanor, Emerald Knight, Keeper of the CEC, Ranger
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
>Tiesse exclaims, "The power of soon compels you!"
~Hanryu Ves'Shomis
Sword of House Calibanor, Emerald Knight, Keeper of the CEC, Ranger
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
>Tiesse exclaims, "The power of soon compels you!"
NAMEK
Re: Bastard Swords RT
09/30/2008 01:30 PM CDT
Today I tried using my bastard sword again with my stats being the same as they were when I used it before and I have logged in and out several times since I've last used it, and it's still getting 4/6 so that isn't fixing it. I'm coming to the conclusion that the calculator is not 100% correct, but perhaps 1 more point in either my strength or agility should get me my RT decrease.
GODKIN
Re: Bastard Swords RT
10/01/2008 02:32 PM CDT
You need more agility.
"Where there is enough evidence to charge someone with a crime, we vigorously prosecute, but not every wrong, or even every violation of the law, is a crime." - Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey
"Where there is enough evidence to charge someone with a crime, we vigorously prosecute, but not every wrong, or even every violation of the law, is a crime." - Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey
NAMEK
Re: Bastard Swords RT
10/01/2008 11:01 PM CDT
On the specific bastard sword that I showed the appraisal values for, I reached 3/4 RT with 30 strength and 27 agility. In case anyone was wondering or has similar problems.
WISECRACKDRAGON
Re: Bastard Swords RT
01/01/2009 10:36 AM CST
I resent the fact that the linked effective strength/RT calculator does not support 100+ stone weapons. Where's the love?
XXXXX: Wait... you wear heavy plate, use a shield, and don't steal? Why not just roll a Paladin?
Me: Because I don't think my sudden urges to flip out and kill stuff fit the Paladin mentality very well.
XXXXX: Wait... you wear heavy plate, use a shield, and don't steal? Why not just roll a Paladin?
Me: Because I don't think my sudden urges to flip out and kill stuff fit the Paladin mentality very well.
