So I was just wondering what the general feel of thrown is for folks? I used to use it in PVP all the time, now recently it seems that i'm never barely able to land a single hit against folks of a likewise skill level. It used to hit albeit lightly now it just never seems to even connect for me.
So the question is, whats the point if its impossible to barely ever hit an at level opponent? I'm pretty sure most other weapons are feasible given balancing maneuvers or aim bonus. Throwing blades, good concept. I'm going to assume the same problem with them before is still at hand. They are to low a damaging model to be relevant after the 3.0 switch over along with being LT. I believe it was on the table for them to possibly be forgable? Is this still on the table?
At any rate i'd just like to gather some opinions since its been a while since I've seen any activity in this area.
SHADOWCHIEF3
NINEVAH1
Re: Feel of LT (thrown in general)
05/25/2013 05:46 AM CDT
I'll start by saying I haven't PvPed with LT yet. It's a not a prime weapon for me so it doesn't come out unless I outclass someone.
As for PvE I find LTs power to be very underwhelming, and throwing blades useless, at the sub 200 ranks. On my thief at 450+ it has much better power at level, and I find throwing blades very useful. I only train the skill because it's used in checks for things like naphtha, ambushes, and other useful PvP tools, but I'd never use it as a main weapon to kill an at level target with, beyond training it.
As for PvE I find LTs power to be very underwhelming, and throwing blades useless, at the sub 200 ranks. On my thief at 450+ it has much better power at level, and I find throwing blades very useful. I only train the skill because it's used in checks for things like naphtha, ambushes, and other useful PvP tools, but I'd never use it as a main weapon to kill an at level target with, beyond training it.
BUUWL
Re: Feel of LT (thrown in general)
05/25/2013 06:00 AM CDT
For whatever reason, I haven't used it in a while, but I was using my light kertig throwing axe a bit in pvp a few weeks ago and it was useful. I definitely still throw my Military fork when I'm advancing on something. Sometimes I'm lazy and just throw my Greatsword at the opponent. I guess the main takeaway; I still find thrown useful, it might not be the ONLY thing I do, like in 2.0, but its definitely useful depending on circumstance.
- Buuwl
Its also nice to make a snowball and hit someone in the mouth.
- Buuwl
Its also nice to make a snowball and hit someone in the mouth.
MARTINCOTY77
Re: Feel of LT (thrown in general)
05/25/2013 09:57 AM CDT
light throwing axes are the way to go, they are easily the most powerful LT weapon out there. I think there is a Haralun one in Tiddeggur's shop in crossing unless it sold.
Kodius said he was thinking about forged throwing blades, which sounds awesome.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
Kodius said he was thinking about forged throwing blades, which sounds awesome.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
NINEVAH1
Re: Feel of LT (thrown in general)
05/25/2013 10:14 AM CDT
>>light throwing axes are the way to go, they are easily the most powerful LT weapon out there.
Agreed. When I want to kill something with LT I'll go for one of these.
Agreed. When I want to kill something with LT I'll go for one of these.
RAIST
Re: Feel of LT (thrown in general)
05/25/2013 10:25 AM CDT
My impression of LT was that it was slated to be the utility thrown. Between naphtha, dirt, and throwing blades, it does seem to fill this niche pretty well, relatively speaking.
If it gets things like nets and bola (tripping wise) it seems like it could still retain a great deal of use.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
If it gets things like nets and bola (tripping wise) it seems like it could still retain a great deal of use.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
HEITAK
Re: Feel of LT (thrown in general)
05/25/2013 05:29 PM CDT
When I designed my barbarian I picked LT due to the fact that I had hopes it would let me do 1 of 2 things. 1 I could throw it and targeted places to trip up/stun/disarm opponents. Or two the bola would be what it should be and cause some kind of CC or snare. I still think throwing axes should have a place as a weapon as do throwing blades. I just think the nich they have should be more about being able to place them in specific places on a target to cause disabling/applying poison or disarm/stunning.
MOCKERJB
Re: Feel of LT (thrown in general)
05/25/2013 08:04 PM CDT
Dudes, it has been noted: throwing axes are one of the nastiest templates, DPS, bar none, across the whole board. Aim bonus is so minor as to not exist anymore. Try it with a couple equiv weapons if you're not sure. Get a tyrium throwing axe and old-log-own while you can.
STILVA
Re: Feel of LT (thrown in general)
05/25/2013 08:11 PM CDT
Between the inability to make a forged version (or a stronger, fest-only version existing) and the increased RT for throwing multiples, throwing blades seem to have become nothing more than a anti-MAF utility.
And even then, that's a pretty questionable use because of the colossal RT. Hoping that changes in the future, but...
And even then, that's a pretty questionable use because of the colossal RT. Hoping that changes in the future, but...
DR-KODIUS
Re: Feel of LT (thrown in general)
05/26/2013 07:46 AM CDT
Once I am past this mountain of Alchemy development I hope to revisit player hp, armor and barriers. to alleviate problems with low-tier and throwing-type weapons being ineffective.
But really, throwing weapons offer very few drawbacks and I've seen high level players absolutely destroy boss critters with them. They just have a lower damage floor, so many people find them absorbed completely by the defenders' armor. But if they can penetrate, the damage is incredible.
An entanglement system was long planned, and I feel would make a great way for ranged users to stave off the advance of enemies long enough to kill them. An engagement overhaul is still in the works. Just need more hands somedays :)
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
But really, throwing weapons offer very few drawbacks and I've seen high level players absolutely destroy boss critters with them. They just have a lower damage floor, so many people find them absorbed completely by the defenders' armor. But if they can penetrate, the damage is incredible.
An entanglement system was long planned, and I feel would make a great way for ranged users to stave off the advance of enemies long enough to kill them. An engagement overhaul is still in the works. Just need more hands somedays :)
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
GAMMERGIRL151
Re: Feel of LT (thrown in general)
05/26/2013 02:01 PM CDT
>>But really, throwing weapons offer very few drawbacks
I don't know, the possibility of weapon loss can be a pretty huge draw back.
You've reached the uninformative help match I haven't written yet.
http://i.imgur.com/fBq8R.jpg
I don't know, the possibility of weapon loss can be a pretty huge draw back.
You've reached the uninformative help match I haven't written yet.
http://i.imgur.com/fBq8R.jpg
HEITAK
Re: Feel of LT (thrown in general)
05/26/2013 02:16 PM CDT
I don't know about that comment with the aim bonus, when I use my crossbows if I snap fire I will flat out miss much more hunting critters and even last night when pvping, but the few times I could get a full aim on targets in pvp I could actually hit them and lodge. I still think the balance aspect of weapons needs working and it part of the issue ( I could be wrong only kodius knows the numbers ) but it seems to be an issue. I still feel IMO that higher balance weapons should be able to better hit and even better hit called shots. Like kodius said, hes got a mountain of work and hes doing what he can.
HEITAK
Re: Feel of LT (thrown in general)
05/26/2013 02:18 PM CDT
Yeah weapon loss sucks, I would use a kertig/haralun throwing axe right now if I could but with no perma bond I know I will lose it so I pack 4-6 steel ones. If simu needs money sell me some perma bond potions because I will quickly upgrade to some nicer rare metal weapons.
RAIST
Re: Feel of LT (thrown in general)
05/26/2013 05:22 PM CDT
>If simu needs money sell me some perma bond potions
They are, but in limited quantities.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
They are, but in limited quantities.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
SHADOWCHIEF3
Re: Feel of LT (thrown in general)
05/27/2013 03:25 PM CDT
> Dudes, it has been noted: throwing axes are one of the nastiest templates, DPS, bar none, across the whole board. Aim bonus is so minor as to not exist anymore. Try it with a couple equiv weapons if you're not sure. Get a tyrium throwing axe and old-log-own while you can.
Yeah I won't argue the fact that if you connect and have no problem connecting the DPS is pretty crazy. My problem is in multiple tests I've ran with throwing on someone with comparable defenses to my LT skill I NEVER hit with comparable agil / reflex on the two characters.
Yeah I won't argue the fact that if you connect and have no problem connecting the DPS is pretty crazy. My problem is in multiple tests I've ran with throwing on someone with comparable defenses to my LT skill I NEVER hit with comparable agil / reflex on the two characters.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Feel of LT (thrown in general)
05/27/2013 06:37 PM CDT
>>with comparable defenses to my LT
The to-hit chance on something with defenses = to your offenses is very low. When I tried to change this prior to 3.0's release, it broke the game. Everyone is used to hunting without enemies having a chance to hit them and if I made the to-hit high for even offenses/defenses, all players would have to move back 1-2 hunting areas...
This is where buffs, debuffs and the attack style come in to help you hit. The to-hit chance goes up rather quickly as your offenses exceed your opponent's defenses. The problem with thrown is you don't have attack styles to help you like melee weapons do, and you don't have an AIM bonus either.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
The to-hit chance on something with defenses = to your offenses is very low. When I tried to change this prior to 3.0's release, it broke the game. Everyone is used to hunting without enemies having a chance to hit them and if I made the to-hit high for even offenses/defenses, all players would have to move back 1-2 hunting areas...
This is where buffs, debuffs and the attack style come in to help you hit. The to-hit chance goes up rather quickly as your offenses exceed your opponent's defenses. The problem with thrown is you don't have attack styles to help you like melee weapons do, and you don't have an AIM bonus either.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
HEITAK
Re: Feel of LT (thrown in general)
05/27/2013 09:03 PM CDT
Thank you for posting that, it cleared a few things up I was wanting to know.
SHADOWCHIEF3
Re: Feel of LT (thrown in general)
05/28/2013 07:44 PM CDT
> This is where buffs, debuffs and the attack style come in to help you hit. The to-hit chance goes up rather quickly as your offenses exceed your opponent's defenses. The problem with thrown is you don't have attack styles to help you like melee weapons do, and you don't have an AIM bonus either.
Yes, thanks for posting that. I remember when it was like how you said on test for a while, and yeah it was pretty broke that way. I know I for one posted a few suggestions for attack styles on a different post a while back that involved heavy fatiguing moves being a bit more accurate or what not. Is there any chance for something like that to come around, or is it something that's not on the board due to the style of weapon, and instead slotted for more niche uses?
Just figured i'd pick you brain a bit if possible.
Yes, thanks for posting that. I remember when it was like how you said on test for a while, and yeah it was pretty broke that way. I know I for one posted a few suggestions for attack styles on a different post a while back that involved heavy fatiguing moves being a bit more accurate or what not. Is there any chance for something like that to come around, or is it something that's not on the board due to the style of weapon, and instead slotted for more niche uses?
Just figured i'd pick you brain a bit if possible.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Feel of LT (thrown in general)
05/29/2013 12:29 AM CDT
I would still like to add a TOSS or HURL command for more accurate, but slower/more fatiguing thrown attacks.
Thrown is really versatile in that you can just quickly pelt enemies with it. No aim time, no long load time, quick RTs. So it makes sense for it to give up on accuracy (in general).
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Thrown is really versatile in that you can just quickly pelt enemies with it. No aim time, no long load time, quick RTs. So it makes sense for it to give up on accuracy (in general).
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
LHALLFIN
Re: Feel of LT (thrown in general)
05/29/2013 06:27 PM CDT
>I would still like to add a TOSS or HURL command for more accurate, but slower/more fatiguing thrown attacks.
Yes, please!
SHADOWCHIEF3
Re: Feel of LT (thrown in general)
05/29/2013 07:47 PM CDT
Thanks for possibly looking into the TOSS and HURL concept, it sounds good.
I've always thought of adding a concept between LT and HT that involved both having a sweet spot on the range that you use it at. Say, LT gains a small advantage from using at melee range (think The Patriot movie throwing a tomahawk at folks) vs a nice HT spear at pole (think brad pit in troy sticking a guy).
I'm not sure if the AIM bonus is the same as it was before which was I believe 130% with full aim? It would be a smaller bonus which was obviously only attainable at the specified range. I'm just throwing out idea's here, it would give the different throwns a flavor while not making them superior to other range weaponry.
I've always thought of adding a concept between LT and HT that involved both having a sweet spot on the range that you use it at. Say, LT gains a small advantage from using at melee range (think The Patriot movie throwing a tomahawk at folks) vs a nice HT spear at pole (think brad pit in troy sticking a guy).
I'm not sure if the AIM bonus is the same as it was before which was I believe 130% with full aim? It would be a smaller bonus which was obviously only attainable at the specified range. I'm just throwing out idea's here, it would give the different throwns a flavor while not making them superior to other range weaponry.
