So I've been gone from DR for a few years, so apologies in advance, but how exactly do we TRAIN the tactics skill? I've been hunting for several days against creatures that are a challenge, I've been leveraging the ANALYZE verb and executing the debuff combos, and I've even tried brawling moves: shoving, grappling, kicking, biting, etc. Nothing seems to get my mental state out of "clear" on tactics. I am a moon mage, if guild matters for training this skill somehow?
GURPINARA
ILLIENA
Re: Training tactics
08/11/2014 04:31 PM CDT
> I've been leveraging the ANALYZE verb and executing the debuff combos
If this isn't teaching, then the critter is too low for your skill. You'll need something of the appropriate difficulty.
If this isn't teaching, then the critter is too low for your skill. You'll need something of the appropriate difficulty.
YOFIE
Re: Training tactics
08/11/2014 04:36 PM CDT
Is your Tactics rank larger than your weapon rank? otherwise what you are doing should work. Analyzing then completing the combos all the way through is the way to learn.
Rehlyn
A Maelshyvean shadow beast slows long enough to deeply inhale some of the swirling shadows surrounding it. After a moment, it sighs with great releif and blackness oozes from its ears and nostrils.
Rehlyn
A Maelshyvean shadow beast slows long enough to deeply inhale some of the swirling shadows surrounding it. After a moment, it sighs with great releif and blackness oozes from its ears and nostrils.
GAMERGIRL151
Re: Training tactics
08/11/2014 04:40 PM CDT
Try appraising the creature carefully to see how well it would teach. There's a line about tactics:
If you attempted to beguile the enemy with tactics, you are certain that it would train acceptably.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
If you attempted to beguile the enemy with tactics, you are certain that it would train acceptably.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
GALLAHAN
Re: Training tactics
08/11/2014 04:46 PM CDT
Also make sure you are facing the creature you are analyzing.
This might not apply anymore, but I know it did.
I would analyze _ ...but I happened to be facing _ (2) and would execute the attacks on it.
Now when I train tactics, I always:
1. face ____
2. ana ____
3, perform the combo
4. repeat 2 & 3 until creature dies, then go back to 1.
This might not apply anymore, but I know it did.
I would analyze _ ...but I happened to be facing _ (2) and would execute the attacks on it.
Now when I train tactics, I always:
1. face ____
2. ana ____
3, perform the combo
4. repeat 2 & 3 until creature dies, then go back to 1.
GURPINARA
Re: Training tactics
08/11/2014 04:52 PM CDT
Thanks, all! I think Yofie found the key: my Tactics rank is 53, but my weapons are in the 30s. This is probably due to how skills converted with the DR 3.0 upgrade. So I think this means the answer is I need to rank up my other skills so that I can handle creatures tough enough to actually train my tactics?
Gamergirl- I didn't realize this was a thing! Thank you! I get the following lines, none of which seem to pertain to tactics? Maybe the discipline? Or perhaps my skill in appraising creatures is too low?
>You are confident that it is rather weaker than you are.
>You think it is likely that it is somewhat less agile than you are.
>You are confident that it is quite a bit less disciplined than you are.
>You are certain that it is somewhat less quick to react than you are.
>You estimate that it is quite a bit less conditioned than you are.
Gallahan- Yes, that is a catch; I've made that mistake a few times when getting swarmed :) But when I get the message about a successful debuff, then I know that I've comboed the right creature, whew!
Gamergirl- I didn't realize this was a thing! Thank you! I get the following lines, none of which seem to pertain to tactics? Maybe the discipline? Or perhaps my skill in appraising creatures is too low?
>You are confident that it is rather weaker than you are.
>You think it is likely that it is somewhat less agile than you are.
>You are confident that it is quite a bit less disciplined than you are.
>You are certain that it is somewhat less quick to react than you are.
>You estimate that it is quite a bit less conditioned than you are.
Gallahan- Yes, that is a catch; I've made that mistake a few times when getting swarmed :) But when I get the message about a successful debuff, then I know that I've comboed the right creature, whew!
CARAAMON
Re: Training tactics
08/11/2014 05:39 PM CDT
you need to APPRAISE CAREFUL, not just APPRAISE
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ABSOLON
Re: Training tactics
08/11/2014 06:45 PM CDT
<<you need to APPRAISE CAREFUL, not just APPRAISE
He is probably already doing so. You need moderate ranks in appraisal to be able to see the specifics about skill training. Around 75-100 ranks of it, IIRC.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
He is probably already doing so. You need moderate ranks in appraisal to be able to see the specifics about skill training. Around 75-100 ranks of it, IIRC.
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
GURPINARA
Re: Training tactics
08/11/2014 07:24 PM CDT
I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I guess I did not read the earlier reply CAREFULLY enough after all ;) I will try that out as soon as I can, though iirc I'm only in the 50s-60s on appraisal
Thank you for the help!
DRSCOTT
Re: Training tactics
08/11/2014 10:36 PM CDT
Something I didn't realize initially - keep analyzing up to 10 times in a row (or whatever it takes) until you reveal a massive opening. Then perform the combo described. Make sure each hit lands at least a brushing/grazing strike. Re-analyze if you aren't sure. Not only will this train much faster, but the debuff will be more powerful and longer lasting.
SHADOW7988
Re: Training tactics
08/12/2014 08:55 PM CDT
DRSCOTT can you rephrase that, I don't think I'm catching what your suggesting?
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
DRSCOTT
Re: Training tactics
08/12/2014 09:29 PM CDT
See the log below and my notes at the bottom:
> analyze goblin
You reveal a tiny weakness in a blue-eyed snow goblin's defense.
Balance reduction can be inflicted upon the enemy by landing a punch and a gouge.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
R>
Learned: Tactics
R> analyze goblin
Your analysis reveals a slight opening already being exploited in a blue-eyed snow goblin's defenses.
Balance reduction can be inflicted by landing a punch and a gouge.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
R>
Learned: Tactics
The snow goblin moves into a position to parry.
> analyze goblin
Your analysis reveals a small opening already being exploited in a blue-eyed snow goblin's defenses.
Balance reduction can be inflicted by landing a punch and a gouge.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
R>
Learned: Tactics
analyze goblin
You fail to find any holes in the goblin's defenses.
> analyze goblin
Your analysis reveals a moderate opening already being exploited in a blue-eyed snow goblin's defenses.
Balance reduction can be inflicted by landing a punch and a gouge.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
R>
Learned: Tactics
> analyze goblin
Your analysis reveals a good opening already being exploited in a blue-eyed snow goblin's defenses.
Balance reduction can be inflicted by landing a punch and a gouge.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
R>
Learned: Tactics
analyze goblin
Your analysis reveals a substantial opening already being exploited in a blue-eyed snow goblin's defenses.
Balance reduction can be inflicted by landing a punch and a gouge.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
R>
Learned: Tactics
> analyze goblin
You fail to find any holes in the goblin's defenses.
> analyze goblin
Your analysis reveals a large opening already being exploited in a blue-eyed snow goblin's defenses.
Balance reduction can be inflicted by landing a punch and a gouge.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
R>
Learned: Tactics
> analyze goblin
You fail to find any holes in the goblin's defenses.
> analyze goblin
Your analysis reveals a great opening already being exploited in a blue-eyed snow goblin's defenses.
Balance reduction can be inflicted by landing a punch and a gouge.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
R>
Learned: Tactics
analyze goblin
You fail to find any holes in the goblin's defenses.
> analyze goblin
Your analysis reveals an exceptional opening already being exploited in a blue-eyed snow goblin's defenses.
Balance reduction can be inflicted by landing a punch and a gouge.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
R>
Learned: Tactics
analyze goblin
Your analysis reveals a massive opening already being exploited in a blue-eyed snow goblin's defenses.
Balance reduction can be inflicted by landing a punch and a gouge.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
R>
Learned: Tactics
The snow goblin moves into a position to parry.
R> analyze goblin
You fail to find any holes in the goblin's defenses.
> analyze goblin
Your analysis reveals a massive opening already being exploited in a blue-eyed snow goblin's defenses.
Balance reduction can be inflicted by landing a punch and a gouge.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
R>
Note: Once you've already revealed "a massive opening", continued analyzing will no longer teach. At this point, complete the combo (punch then gouge in this case) to receive more exp and to "reset" the ability to learn tactics via analysis. Perhaps more significantly, the resulting debuff to your opponent will be much stronger and longer lasting.
Another useful tactic is to use a well balanced weapon that's easy to get light hits with, analyze until you see a massive opening, complete the combo and debuff your opponent before switching to a larger weapon that's harder to connect with, like twohanded blunt. This is also helpful for backtraining a lower weapon.
> analyze goblin
You reveal a tiny weakness in a blue-eyed snow goblin's defense.
Balance reduction can be inflicted upon the enemy by landing a punch and a gouge.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
R>
Learned: Tactics
R> analyze goblin
Your analysis reveals a slight opening already being exploited in a blue-eyed snow goblin's defenses.
Balance reduction can be inflicted by landing a punch and a gouge.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
R>
Learned: Tactics
The snow goblin moves into a position to parry.
> analyze goblin
Your analysis reveals a small opening already being exploited in a blue-eyed snow goblin's defenses.
Balance reduction can be inflicted by landing a punch and a gouge.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
R>
Learned: Tactics
analyze goblin
You fail to find any holes in the goblin's defenses.
> analyze goblin
Your analysis reveals a moderate opening already being exploited in a blue-eyed snow goblin's defenses.
Balance reduction can be inflicted by landing a punch and a gouge.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
R>
Learned: Tactics
> analyze goblin
Your analysis reveals a good opening already being exploited in a blue-eyed snow goblin's defenses.
Balance reduction can be inflicted by landing a punch and a gouge.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
R>
Learned: Tactics
analyze goblin
Your analysis reveals a substantial opening already being exploited in a blue-eyed snow goblin's defenses.
Balance reduction can be inflicted by landing a punch and a gouge.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
R>
Learned: Tactics
> analyze goblin
You fail to find any holes in the goblin's defenses.
> analyze goblin
Your analysis reveals a large opening already being exploited in a blue-eyed snow goblin's defenses.
Balance reduction can be inflicted by landing a punch and a gouge.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
R>
Learned: Tactics
> analyze goblin
You fail to find any holes in the goblin's defenses.
> analyze goblin
Your analysis reveals a great opening already being exploited in a blue-eyed snow goblin's defenses.
Balance reduction can be inflicted by landing a punch and a gouge.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
R>
Learned: Tactics
analyze goblin
You fail to find any holes in the goblin's defenses.
> analyze goblin
Your analysis reveals an exceptional opening already being exploited in a blue-eyed snow goblin's defenses.
Balance reduction can be inflicted by landing a punch and a gouge.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
R>
Learned: Tactics
analyze goblin
Your analysis reveals a massive opening already being exploited in a blue-eyed snow goblin's defenses.
Balance reduction can be inflicted by landing a punch and a gouge.
Roundtime: 2 sec.
R>
Learned: Tactics
The snow goblin moves into a position to parry.
R> analyze goblin
You fail to find any holes in the goblin's defenses.
> analyze goblin
Your analysis reveals a massive opening already being exploited in a blue-eyed snow goblin's defenses.
Balance reduction can be inflicted by landing a punch and a gouge.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
R>
Note: Once you've already revealed "a massive opening", continued analyzing will no longer teach. At this point, complete the combo (punch then gouge in this case) to receive more exp and to "reset" the ability to learn tactics via analysis. Perhaps more significantly, the resulting debuff to your opponent will be much stronger and longer lasting.
Another useful tactic is to use a well balanced weapon that's easy to get light hits with, analyze until you see a massive opening, complete the combo and debuff your opponent before switching to a larger weapon that's harder to connect with, like twohanded blunt. This is also helpful for backtraining a lower weapon.
ABSOLON
Re: Training tactics
08/13/2014 12:46 AM CDT
Just to add to that, you also see the strength of the analyze debuff in the message when you complete it. I believe it is the exact same adjectives that he bolded above. Posting from my phone so I don't have the exact message, but it is something like, "Utilizing good/moderate/massive skill, your attack makes the goblin more susceptible to stuns and debilitations."
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
Elanthipedia - https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
OLSONM6
Re: Training tactics
08/13/2014 02:35 PM CDT
Also, you do know you can just type "analyze" to analyze what you're facing, right?
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JKILBY
Re: Training tactics
08/14/2014 03:12 AM CDT
>Also, you do know you can just type "analyze" to analyze what you're facing, right?
This. I never ever specify which creature to analyze and have zero issues with the tactics system, keep things easy! Same with attacking, I never "slice goblin", just "slice".
GALLAHAN
Re: Training tactics
08/15/2014 11:39 AM CDT
Wow, you can analyze without choosing a target now.
Well, I'm pretty sure you used to not be able to when the system first came out.. and I thought it was requested and we were told it would be too complicated or something.
Either way, thanks for letting me know you can analyze without a target now, and thanks to GM who got it working that way!
Well, I'm pretty sure you used to not be able to when the system first came out.. and I thought it was requested and we were told it would be too complicated or something.
Either way, thanks for letting me know you can analyze without a target now, and thanks to GM who got it working that way!
