Now, I recently returned from a ~3 year break from DR. When I left, arm-worn shields were coming 'soon' and when I return, they're the greatest things since canned biscuits!
Now, I've never been a shield user, and don't know a whole lot about training it.
Currently, I'm sitting on 175 evasion, 128 parry, 132 MO, 135 Leather...and sadly, 53 shield.
I've never been a big fan of the 'everyone uses a shield, so you should too!' mentality, but being that I'm rapidly approaching the circle where I have to start training a second armor.
For starters, when training shield, the nominal stance would be 100/82 shield/evasion?
Is there any way to stance myself say 100 evasion, 81 parry, 1 shield, or would this be sub-optimal?
I really don't want to spend hours and hours hunting something that doesn't teach squat but shield if I don't have to, but if I do, I do. Give me a chance to work some other weapons and maybe train like, LP or something for the TDPs.
I'm a ranger, and yes, I understand the need to use a small shield and use See the Wind to use my bow, and I can't block with the shield while my bow is loaded.
BUT I would really like some advice on shield training. I've never been a shield person, but that second armor requirement is going to catch up with me real soon if I don't nip it in the bud.
No Ranger Stands Alone.
Sarkranis: "From outside of the Empath's guild, go east, north, and through the hospital backdoor."
Trinean: "I'm not sure I trust healing through the back door."
Zamara: "It's not so bad, once you get used to it."
GOODALEM1
SPECIALSAUCES
Re: Shields, Stances, and Backtraining
08/16/2009 09:45 PM CDT
I'd grab a buckler, a weapon or 3 you want to backtrain, Strange Arrow, and some armor for TDPs and go sit in the unlimited undead swarm that teaches without hitting you and beat the poo out of them non-stop.
It's a good time to backtrain boxes too.
******************
SEND[Bramoir] Okay, you are all set, just make sure you use your name for the powers of good okay?
******************
It's a good time to backtrain boxes too.
******************
SEND[Bramoir] Okay, you are all set, just make sure you use your name for the powers of good okay?
******************
GOODALEM1
Re: Shields, Stances, and Backtraining
08/16/2009 09:50 PM CDT
You refer to the revivafied mutts or whatever, out by Kaerna? Or the other ones, up by reavers?
Boxes aren't an issue, they're my sixth and seventh survivals. I can typically pop at my level or a little higher.
NOT the answer I was hoping for, but the answer I expected. So, 100/82 is best for training? (shield/evasion) Or no?
No Ranger Stands Alone.
Sarkranis: "From outside of the Empath's guild, go east, north, and through the hospital backdoor."
Trinean: "I'm not sure I trust healing through the back door."
Zamara: "It's not so bad, once you get used to it."
Boxes aren't an issue, they're my sixth and seventh survivals. I can typically pop at my level or a little higher.
NOT the answer I was hoping for, but the answer I expected. So, 100/82 is best for training? (shield/evasion) Or no?
No Ranger Stands Alone.
Sarkranis: "From outside of the Empath's guild, go east, north, and through the hospital backdoor."
Trinean: "I'm not sure I trust healing through the back door."
Zamara: "It's not so bad, once you get used to it."
SLOANJ11
Re: Shields, Stances, and Backtraining
08/16/2009 11:02 PM CDT
>So, 100/82 is best for training? (shield/evasion) Or no?
I typically keep 100 evasion/1 parry/80+ shield, but with your evasion so far ahead, you'll want to go to a weaker critter, then go with 100 shield, and then drop stance in evasion say 5 points at a time until you reach the point where the message switches from you dodging every attack to you blocking every attack.
I typically keep 100 evasion/1 parry/80+ shield, but with your evasion so far ahead, you'll want to go to a weaker critter, then go with 100 shield, and then drop stance in evasion say 5 points at a time until you reach the point where the message switches from you dodging every attack to you blocking every attack.
GOODALEM1
Re: Shields, Stances, and Backtraining
08/17/2009 04:51 AM CDT
Again, not the answer I wanted to hear, but answer I expected.
Thanks guys for your honesty.
Sarkranis: "From outside of the Empath's guild, go east, north, and through the hospital backdoor."
Trinean: "I'm not sure I trust healing through the back door."
Zamara: "It's not so bad, once you get used to it."
Thanks guys for your honesty.
Sarkranis: "From outside of the Empath's guild, go east, north, and through the hospital backdoor."
Trinean: "I'm not sure I trust healing through the back door."
Zamara: "It's not so bad, once you get used to it."
SHNURUI
Re: Shields, Stances, and Backtraining
08/17/2009 06:06 AM CDT
You probably wanted to hear go 100/80/2 or 100/79/1(stance availabilty), and hunt what you normally do.
You can use this in a pinch, however; Even I wouldn't suggest it, on the off chance the critter you're hunting actually decides to go through your left defense, you'll not only be wide open, but you'll be using 1% of your wide open defense.
new armor with 80/100 or 90+/90+ would probably be best, plus free tdps.
If there were no cost or sacrifice involved, there wouldn't be any benefits worth learning, and the entire system would be pointless. --GM Wythor
These statements were not endorsed or made by a GM and may be completely irrealavent to game play.
You can use this in a pinch, however; Even I wouldn't suggest it, on the off chance the critter you're hunting actually decides to go through your left defense, you'll not only be wide open, but you'll be using 1% of your wide open defense.
new armor with 80/100 or 90+/90+ would probably be best, plus free tdps.
If there were no cost or sacrifice involved, there wouldn't be any benefits worth learning, and the entire system would be pointless. --GM Wythor
These statements were not endorsed or made by a GM and may be completely irrealavent to game play.
SLOANJ11
Re: Shields, Stances, and Backtraining
08/17/2009 08:28 AM CDT
>Again, not the answer I wanted to hear, but answer I expected.
If you aren't worried about shield catching up in a hurry, the evasion 100/shield 1/parry whatever thing could work. As long as the critters you hunt occasionally get through your evasion/parry to land glancing hits once in a while. It won't be fast going, but it won't require changing your hunting grounds and style so much.
If you aren't worried about shield catching up in a hurry, the evasion 100/shield 1/parry whatever thing could work. As long as the critters you hunt occasionally get through your evasion/parry to land glancing hits once in a while. It won't be fast going, but it won't require changing your hunting grounds and style so much.
ALVESN50
Re: Shields, Stances, and Backtraining
08/17/2009 09:25 AM CDT
I'll add my support for the backtraining option.
It also depends on why you want to train shield...
If the sole purpose is to fulfil your secondary armor requirements, i suggest just replacing your gloves and/or head armor with a different type of armor. Shield wont be useful enough (both for PvP and hunting) unless it is at level with your other defenses. If its not at level then using it will be hinderance.
If you want to train shield so you can use it effectively at level for protection purposes, then you'll achieve this much faster by backtraining. (If you keep all your defenses moving at the same time it will takes ages for shield to naturally close the gap).
Personally, i enjoy backtraining. It gives you the chance to pick up new weapons and armors that you might regret not having trained from the start. Gives you a ton of TDPs too.
With the new exp system, you'll be able to easily train many weapons at the same time.
If backtraining really isnt your thing then try the 100/80/1 approach (or similar) at level. Tweak the stance until you find a good balance in wounds received and exp gained.
It also depends on why you want to train shield...
If the sole purpose is to fulfil your secondary armor requirements, i suggest just replacing your gloves and/or head armor with a different type of armor. Shield wont be useful enough (both for PvP and hunting) unless it is at level with your other defenses. If its not at level then using it will be hinderance.
If you want to train shield so you can use it effectively at level for protection purposes, then you'll achieve this much faster by backtraining. (If you keep all your defenses moving at the same time it will takes ages for shield to naturally close the gap).
Personally, i enjoy backtraining. It gives you the chance to pick up new weapons and armors that you might regret not having trained from the start. Gives you a ton of TDPs too.
With the new exp system, you'll be able to easily train many weapons at the same time.
If backtraining really isnt your thing then try the 100/80/1 approach (or similar) at level. Tweak the stance until you find a good balance in wounds received and exp gained.
GOODALEM1
Re: Shields, Stances, and Backtraining
08/17/2009 11:59 AM CDT
I'll probably play around with it and see what I can do at level, and see how that goes.
I get too bored, too easily while backtraining. I suppose if I were to find someone who was actually training, I might have a bit more enjoyment.
As for reasoning, the real sole purpose was to meet my secondary armor requirement, and it seemed shield would be easiest to backtrain.
Now, I'm a ranger. Stealth Heavy (Stalking and hiding are secondary/tertiary survival for me.) If I were to swap out gloves and/or helm, which way should I go? Up towards LC, or down towards bone/cloth armor? I want/need to keep decent protection, but I don't want to lose alot of stealth doing so. Is there a good combination out there, for a leather main armor and perhaps LC gloves?
No Ranger Stands Alone
Sarkranis: "From outside of the Empath's guild, go east, north, and through the hospital backdoor."
Trinean: "I'm not sure I trust healing through the back door."
Zamara: "It's not so bad, once you get used to it."
I get too bored, too easily while backtraining. I suppose if I were to find someone who was actually training, I might have a bit more enjoyment.
As for reasoning, the real sole purpose was to meet my secondary armor requirement, and it seemed shield would be easiest to backtrain.
Now, I'm a ranger. Stealth Heavy (Stalking and hiding are secondary/tertiary survival for me.) If I were to swap out gloves and/or helm, which way should I go? Up towards LC, or down towards bone/cloth armor? I want/need to keep decent protection, but I don't want to lose alot of stealth doing so. Is there a good combination out there, for a leather main armor and perhaps LC gloves?
No Ranger Stands Alone
Sarkranis: "From outside of the Empath's guild, go east, north, and through the hospital backdoor."
Trinean: "I'm not sure I trust healing through the back door."
Zamara: "It's not so bad, once you get used to it."
RIDDLYN069
Re: Shields, Stances, and Backtraining
08/17/2009 12:14 PM CDT
Funny thing is I've started backtraining shield by putting whatever was left after going 100evasion/75 parry/ 9 shield now. My shield is just a few ranks behind my evasion. I've never truly been hurt hunting that was unless I was outclassed.
Oderint Dum Metuant
Oderint Dum Metuant
MASON19
Re: Shields, Stances, and Backtraining
08/17/2009 12:27 PM CDT
>>Currently, I'm sitting on 175 evasion, 128 parry, 132 MO, 135 Leather...and sadly, 53 shield.>>
I'd imagine you're still trying to hunt black leucros. If you sit at melee with them with those ranks you'll most likely get stomped, especially if you shield stance with 53 in shield.
My suggestion is to downgrade to the viper only area through the tracks. They are significantly weaker both in terms of vitality and their attacks, and they'll teach you multi/shield/parry/leather/evasion to ~200 ranks.
You would most likely be able to sit there and train shield on them dancing with 2, while also learning your other defenses as well.
I'd imagine you're still trying to hunt black leucros. If you sit at melee with them with those ranks you'll most likely get stomped, especially if you shield stance with 53 in shield.
My suggestion is to downgrade to the viper only area through the tracks. They are significantly weaker both in terms of vitality and their attacks, and they'll teach you multi/shield/parry/leather/evasion to ~200 ranks.
You would most likely be able to sit there and train shield on them dancing with 2, while also learning your other defenses as well.
VMILLER4
Re: Shields, Stances, and Backtraining
08/17/2009 12:57 PM CDT
If you typically take a fair amount of hits (even non damaging ones) while you hunt, you can learn quite a bit of shield from a left over point or two.
Obviously this is no way to play catch up, though.
You should do pretty well in vipers, if the poison isn't getting passed evasion/shield/armor too much.
If the poison is too bad, I would recommend picking up LC and backtraining (I despise this as well); capped forged will severly reduce the amount of hand/eye stuns you recieve in leather.
You will be very glad you have shield after its done.
~Maryhana
Obviously this is no way to play catch up, though.
You should do pretty well in vipers, if the poison isn't getting passed evasion/shield/armor too much.
If the poison is too bad, I would recommend picking up LC and backtraining (I despise this as well); capped forged will severly reduce the amount of hand/eye stuns you recieve in leather.
You will be very glad you have shield after its done.
~Maryhana
JMF90
Re: Shields, Stances, and Backtraining
08/17/2009 01:20 PM CDT
If you just care about circling, put on some cloth gloves and call it a day. Shield ranks are probably much more useful though.
ALVESN50
Re: Shields, Stances, and Backtraining
08/17/2009 01:34 PM CDT
For the armor question:
Shield also gives a stealth penalty. This penalty is more noticeable than LC accessories. At earlier levels (reavers) i had to remove shield in order to hide and stalk.
My experience with armor accessories (hand and head protection) is that they do not add A LOT of stealth hinderance. This difference is only noticeable when going up the creature ladder and the new creature is at level with your stealths. Being a ranger with stealths in the high survivals AND 2 spells to aid hiding + 1 spell to aid stalking, you wont really have a problem. If you happen to go up the ladder and find yourself unable to hide, temporarily wear leather gloves and cowl just for a few ranks.
Of course, i dont have experience at high levels so it might be different then.
I use: tanned leathers + forged LC gloves + forged LC helm + tanned mask (cuz LC helm doesnt protect the eyes)
Tried cloth hood + LC gloves but the lack of eye protection on the hood caused a lot of annoying stuns so i dropped the cloth.
Grab some favors and/or a friend and give it a try in leucros :D Good luck.
Shield also gives a stealth penalty. This penalty is more noticeable than LC accessories. At earlier levels (reavers) i had to remove shield in order to hide and stalk.
My experience with armor accessories (hand and head protection) is that they do not add A LOT of stealth hinderance. This difference is only noticeable when going up the creature ladder and the new creature is at level with your stealths. Being a ranger with stealths in the high survivals AND 2 spells to aid hiding + 1 spell to aid stalking, you wont really have a problem. If you happen to go up the ladder and find yourself unable to hide, temporarily wear leather gloves and cowl just for a few ranks.
Of course, i dont have experience at high levels so it might be different then.
I use: tanned leathers + forged LC gloves + forged LC helm + tanned mask (cuz LC helm doesnt protect the eyes)
Tried cloth hood + LC gloves but the lack of eye protection on the hood caused a lot of annoying stuns so i dropped the cloth.
Grab some favors and/or a friend and give it a try in leucros :D Good luck.
SLOANJ11
Re: Shields, Stances, and Backtraining
08/17/2009 01:54 PM CDT
>If you just care about circling, put on some cloth gloves and call it a day. Shield ranks are probably much more useful though.
I concur with Copernicus.
I concur with Copernicus.
GOODALEM1
Re: Shields, Stances, and Backtraining
08/17/2009 05:44 PM CDT
I tend more towards Day Barghests than I do luecros, though with SOP and SOTT up, I can dance 2 luecros and only occasionally take a glancing blow.
I guess I'll do a little bit of experimenting playing around at level or a little lower, and see what I come up with.
As for training my stealths, I only have One spell for hiding and one for stalking. My magics are decent, so I can get both of them off at a significant amount of mana if needbe.
I'll play around a little, and get back to y'all with the results.
Sarkranis: "From outside of the Empath's guild, go east, north, and through the hospital backdoor."
Trinean: "I'm not sure I trust healing through the back door."
Zamara: "It's not so bad, once you get used to it."
I guess I'll do a little bit of experimenting playing around at level or a little lower, and see what I come up with.
As for training my stealths, I only have One spell for hiding and one for stalking. My magics are decent, so I can get both of them off at a significant amount of mana if needbe.
I'll play around a little, and get back to y'all with the results.
Sarkranis: "From outside of the Empath's guild, go east, north, and through the hospital backdoor."
Trinean: "I'm not sure I trust healing through the back door."
Zamara: "It's not so bad, once you get used to it."
TYGOR
Re: Shields, Stances, and Backtraining
08/18/2009 12:19 AM CDT
Can get enough shield ranks via classes to keep it ahead of your circle requirements if you never want to back train and never really want to actually train shield. Just listen to a shield class whenever you see one going, everyone's always teaching shield, somewhere. Never have to go out of your way for it, anyways. That's one option.
Otherwise, yea. Backtrain it, or do the single points thing.
Otherwise, yea. Backtrain it, or do the single points thing.
