When I use weapons I am not used to I just use the ATTACK verb. I can see the case for not using Attack in PvP. But in day to day hunting, what is better, plain ol Attack or your own written combos? What does ATTACK use to determine the next move?
Ackfer - Halfling in a Can, No Fillers Here!
ZIMPLYBEST
LEMAGRAG
Re: ATTACK, Verb
08/08/2008 06:25 PM CDT
When I use weapons I am not used to I just use the ATTACK verb. I can see the case for not using Attack in PvP. But in day to day hunting, what is better, plain ol Attack or your own written combos? What does ATTACK use to determine the next move?
Attack uses a single 3-verb combo. Using your own combo, you can:
a) gain balance more quickly
b) avoid or modify maneuvers that put you at more risk defensively
c) use maneuvers to strategically land a harder strike
d) optimize b) and c) with different on- and off-hand weapons
~player of Gulphphunger
Attack uses a single 3-verb combo. Using your own combo, you can:
a) gain balance more quickly
b) avoid or modify maneuvers that put you at more risk defensively
c) use maneuvers to strategically land a harder strike
d) optimize b) and c) with different on- and off-hand weapons
~player of Gulphphunger
YUOREE
Re: ATTACK, Verb
08/08/2008 07:03 PM CDT
Using your own commands, you can create nice feint chains (feint, feint draw, feint slice, feint chop for example) that keep you at incred balance without hurting the critter much (and oddly enough can slowly work weapon too, faster than just parrying by a large degree).
As mentioned above, you can modify as the situation warrants (draw/thrust/jab to get incred balance, hide, lunge/thrust/jab to kill off if using a jabber for instance).
Most important is skipping attack combos that leave you wide open (sweep, lunge, etc) in day to day combat.
As mentioned above, you can modify as the situation warrants (draw/thrust/jab to get incred balance, hide, lunge/thrust/jab to kill off if using a jabber for instance).
Most important is skipping attack combos that leave you wide open (sweep, lunge, etc) in day to day combat.
SILENTZEPHYR
Re: ATTACK, Verb
08/18/2008 11:22 AM CDT
I know Lunge and Sweep both give you defensive penalties. Are there any other pro/cons to the other attacks?
Tabby Faye
Tabby Faye
GANGREL
Re: ATTACK, Verb
08/18/2008 11:30 AM CDT
>>I know Lunge and Sweep both give you defensive penalties. Are there any other pro/cons to the other attacks?
All attacks provide some modifier to the defense types that last until another maneuver is performed. For instance if you sweep, you will not be able to parry well since your weapon is way out to the side, but it keeps your shield in a good position. As I recall, all the modifiers are negative to greater or lesser degrees, except PARRY and DODGE which let you use 100% of your stanced skill in those respective defenses.
Killing you softly with his song,
- Stormsinger Shavay
Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"
All attacks provide some modifier to the defense types that last until another maneuver is performed. For instance if you sweep, you will not be able to parry well since your weapon is way out to the side, but it keeps your shield in a good position. As I recall, all the modifiers are negative to greater or lesser degrees, except PARRY and DODGE which let you use 100% of your stanced skill in those respective defenses.
Killing you softly with his song,
- Stormsinger Shavay
Madness does not always howl. Sometimes, it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying, "Hey, is there room in your head for one more?"
SUGARSNOUT
Re: ATTACK, Verb
08/18/2008 11:54 AM CDT
Basically what Shavay said. The different maneuvers have varying levels of defensive penalties associated with them. I'd recommend against Lunging or Sweeping unless the critter is stunned, or you're certain you can stun/kill them with that attack.
For balance purposes, depending on what weapon you're using, I'd utilize Feint Lunge or Feint Sweep.
____________
"I for one welcome our new Lithping Overlordth."
For balance purposes, depending on what weapon you're using, I'd utilize Feint Lunge or Feint Sweep.
____________
"I for one welcome our new Lithping Overlordth."
WISECRACKDRAGON
Re: ATTACK, Verb
08/18/2008 12:10 PM CDT
But if you're using shield, SWEEP isn't so bad? If that's the case, it's very handy to know...
You hear the ghostly voice of Reaperscythe exclaim, "I'm a freaking necromancer I ripple an twitch with totally sweet power!!"
You hear the ghostly voice of Reaperscythe exclaim, "I'm a freaking necromancer I ripple an twitch with totally sweet power!!"
ZIMPLYBEST
Re: ATTACK, Verb
08/18/2008 02:28 PM CDT
You mean there is more to it then balance/position? It actually accounts for where your weapon would be end of movement?
With my rapier: parry, feint,thrust,lunge
The above takes me to incred/dominating pretty fast and keeps me there.
Ackfer - Halfling in a Can, No Fillers Here!
With my rapier: parry, feint,thrust,lunge
The above takes me to incred/dominating pretty fast and keeps me there.
Ackfer - Halfling in a Can, No Fillers Here!
WISECRACKDRAGON
Re: ATTACK, Verb
08/18/2008 02:47 PM CDT
It's pretty widely accepted that there's a defensive modifier based on the last attack used, in adition to balance and position modifiers. I'm not sure exactly what all those penalties are, just that sweep, lunge, and to a lesser degree thrust are usually bad for your defenses. And the Barbarian Whirlwind move is supposedly the worst penalty you can get from a maneuver.
You hear the ghostly voice of Reaperscythe exclaim, "I'm a freaking necromancer I ripple an twitch with totally sweet power!!"
You hear the ghostly voice of Reaperscythe exclaim, "I'm a freaking necromancer I ripple an twitch with totally sweet power!!"
ZIMPLYBEST
Re: ATTACK, Verb
08/18/2008 02:55 PM CDT
To think this whole time I have been only using the balance/position indicators to determine my moves. Hmpf. Has anyone devised a testing method?
Ackfer - Halfling in a Can, No Fillers Here!
Ackfer - Halfling in a Can, No Fillers Here!
WISECRACKDRAGON
Re: ATTACK, Verb
08/18/2008 03:00 PM CDT
I've never tested it personally, but I don't think the penalty is so severe that you need to worry much. If you're hunting on the edge of your ability, use a feint sweep or feint lunge instead of sweep or lunge and you should be fine. If you're comfortable with the critter, you should be all right using just the regular attack.
You hear the ghostly voice of Reaperscythe exclaim, "I'm a freaking necromancer I ripple an twitch with totally sweet power!!"
You hear the ghostly voice of Reaperscythe exclaim, "I'm a freaking necromancer I ripple an twitch with totally sweet power!!"
NJP
Re: ATTACK, Verb
08/18/2008 03:09 PM CDT
The easiest testing method I can think of is to use a maneuver, let your balance come back down/up to solid, retreat until your position evens out again, and see how your defenses fare vs. doing the same with other maneuvers.
You can certainly tell that the effect is there easily enough by comparing how well you do when solidly balanced using a parry/dodge maneuver vs. the same balance after last using a lunge (though I suggest not trying it against a critter that can take you down too quickly). I've learned that a few times the hard way while training pike and forgetting to reset to parry after killing the previous critter with a lunge.
Putting the Romance back in Necromancer.
Necromancy: Because every man lives, not every man really dies.
You can certainly tell that the effect is there easily enough by comparing how well you do when solidly balanced using a parry/dodge maneuver vs. the same balance after last using a lunge (though I suggest not trying it against a critter that can take you down too quickly). I've learned that a few times the hard way while training pike and forgetting to reset to parry after killing the previous critter with a lunge.
Putting the Romance back in Necromancer.
Necromancy: Because every man lives, not every man really dies.
ZIMPLYBEST
Re: ATTACK, Verb
08/18/2008 03:19 PM CDT
<<NJP>>
Will give this a whirl with a Marauder tonight. I would like to use a Vine/Creeper but the spawn will divert the testing too much.
Ackfer - Halfling in a Can, No Fillers Here!
Will give this a whirl with a Marauder tonight. I would like to use a Vine/Creeper but the spawn will divert the testing too much.
Ackfer - Halfling in a Can, No Fillers Here!
JMF90
Re: ATTACK, Verb
08/18/2008 03:33 PM CDT
>You mean there is more to it then balance/position? It actually accounts for where your weapon would be end of movement?
Not exactly, heh. Also, that tidbit on sweep penalizing parry more than shield is something I've never heard before.
By the way, grapple is another move you don't want to make because of the defensive penalty. That one is hefty.
Not exactly, heh. Also, that tidbit on sweep penalizing parry more than shield is something I've never heard before.
By the way, grapple is another move you don't want to make because of the defensive penalty. That one is hefty.
SUGARSNOUT
Re: ATTACK, Verb
08/18/2008 03:54 PM CDT
>Not exactly, heh. Also, that tidbit on sweep penalizing parry more than shield is something I've never heard before.
From what I've seen and been told, the different maneuvers do, in fact, penalize different defenses. Some of them pretty severely. I'm sure there's a reasoning behind it, but I've never really thought much about it beyond the numbers.
>To think this whole time I have been only using the balance/position indicators to determine my moves. Hmpf. Has anyone devised a testing method?
If you look on (I forget which site has it) drplat.com or elanthipedia.com, Hanryu's compiled a list of maneuvers and how they relate to your combat balance. This is entirely separate from the defensive penalties each maneuver imposes, and (because I know someone will bring it up) the balance of whatever weapon you're using.
____________
"I for one welcome our new Lithping Overlordth."
From what I've seen and been told, the different maneuvers do, in fact, penalize different defenses. Some of them pretty severely. I'm sure there's a reasoning behind it, but I've never really thought much about it beyond the numbers.
>To think this whole time I have been only using the balance/position indicators to determine my moves. Hmpf. Has anyone devised a testing method?
If you look on (I forget which site has it) drplat.com or elanthipedia.com, Hanryu's compiled a list of maneuvers and how they relate to your combat balance. This is entirely separate from the defensive penalties each maneuver imposes, and (because I know someone will bring it up) the balance of whatever weapon you're using.
____________
"I for one welcome our new Lithping Overlordth."
JMF90
Re: ATTACK, Verb
08/18/2008 04:04 PM CDT
>From what I've seen and been told, the different maneuvers do, in fact, penalize different defenses. Some of them pretty severely. I'm sure there's a reasoning behind it, but I've never really thought much about it beyond the numbers.
Well, that is an interesting idea, but I don't think it really adds depth to the system unless it gets explained to us players. PAFO just doesn't cut it.
Well, that is an interesting idea, but I don't think it really adds depth to the system unless it gets explained to us players. PAFO just doesn't cut it.
NJP
Re: ATTACK, Verb
08/18/2008 04:13 PM CDT
>>>From what I've seen and been told, the different maneuvers do, in fact, penalize different defenses. Some of them pretty severely. I'm sure there's a reasoning behind it, but I've never really thought much about it beyond the numbers.
>>Well, that is an interesting idea, but I don't think it really adds depth to the system unless it gets explained to us players. PAFO just doesn't cut it.
QFT, if that's how it works.
Though I don't recall ever getting that impression from the GMs myself, always sounded like it's just a general defense penalty.
Putting the Romance back in Necromancer.
Necromancy: Because every man lives, not every man really dies.
>>Well, that is an interesting idea, but I don't think it really adds depth to the system unless it gets explained to us players. PAFO just doesn't cut it.
QFT, if that's how it works.
Though I don't recall ever getting that impression from the GMs myself, always sounded like it's just a general defense penalty.
Putting the Romance back in Necromancer.
Necromancy: Because every man lives, not every man really dies.
WISECRACKDRAGON
Re: ATTACK, Verb
08/18/2008 04:24 PM CDT
I may try to test it, but since my shield and parry are spread pretty far apart it might be better for someone with about equal ranks in each to give it a shot.
You hear the ghostly voice of Reaperscythe exclaim, "I'm a freaking necromancer I ripple an twitch with totally sweet power!!"
You hear the ghostly voice of Reaperscythe exclaim, "I'm a freaking necromancer I ripple an twitch with totally sweet power!!"
JMF90
Re: ATTACK, Verb
08/18/2008 06:05 PM CDT
>I may try to test it, but since my shield and parry are spread pretty far apart it might be better for someone with about equal ranks in each to give it a shot.
Adjusting your stances will allow you to test this.
Adjusting your stances will allow you to test this.
WISECRACKDRAGON
Re: ATTACK, Verb
08/18/2008 06:11 PM CDT
I know. Just too lazy to want to figure out the %, heheh.
Whether or not I test will depend on how much time I have tomorrow, which is likely not much since I have to watch a two-year-old in a non-baby-proof house. Maybe when she naps.
You hear the ghostly voice of Reaperscythe exclaim, "I'm a freaking necromancer I ripple an twitch with totally sweet power!!"
Whether or not I test will depend on how much time I have tomorrow, which is likely not much since I have to watch a two-year-old in a non-baby-proof house. Maybe when she naps.
You hear the ghostly voice of Reaperscythe exclaim, "I'm a freaking necromancer I ripple an twitch with totally sweet power!!"
JMF90
Re: ATTACK, Verb
08/18/2008 06:11 PM CDT
>I know. Just too lazy to want to figure out the %, heheh.
Just reduce the % of the higher one until the other one is listed higher under stance. No thought required.
Just reduce the % of the higher one until the other one is listed higher under stance. No thought required.
WISECRACKDRAGON
Re: ATTACK, Verb
08/18/2008 06:14 PM CDT
Hm, didn't know it changed order like that. Handy info.
You hear the ghostly voice of Reaperscythe exclaim, "I'm a freaking necromancer I ripple an twitch with totally sweet power!!"
You hear the ghostly voice of Reaperscythe exclaim, "I'm a freaking necromancer I ripple an twitch with totally sweet power!!"
NJP
Re: ATTACK, Verb
08/18/2008 06:14 PM CDT
>>Whether or not I test will depend on how much time I have tomorrow, which is likely not much since I have to watch a two-year-old in a non-baby-proof house. Maybe when she naps.
Off topic, but being the work-at-home father of a two-year-old and living in an un-baby-proofable house, you'll have my prayers. God speed.
Putting the Romance back in Necromancer.
Necromancy: Because every man lives, not every man really dies.
Off topic, but being the work-at-home father of a two-year-old and living in an un-baby-proofable house, you'll have my prayers. God speed.
Putting the Romance back in Necromancer.
Necromancy: Because every man lives, not every man really dies.
GODKIN
Re: ATTACK, Verb
08/18/2008 07:37 PM CDT
I think I have to repost this every 6 months or so...
Best moves for evasion:
dodge, parry, feint, jab
Worst moves for evasion:
lunge, bite, kick, thrust
Best moves for parry:
parry, dodge, feint, circle, weave
Worst moves for parry:
lunge, bite, elbow, shove, sweep
Best moves for shield:
parry, dodge, circle, weave, feint
Worst moves for shield:
lunge, bite, shove
Most accurate moves:
lunge, charge, tackle, weave, sweep
"Where there is enough evidence to charge someone with a crime, we vigorously prosecute, but not every wrong, or even every violation of the law, is a crime." - Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey
Best moves for evasion:
dodge, parry, feint, jab
Worst moves for evasion:
lunge, bite, kick, thrust
Best moves for parry:
parry, dodge, feint, circle, weave
Worst moves for parry:
lunge, bite, elbow, shove, sweep
Best moves for shield:
parry, dodge, circle, weave, feint
Worst moves for shield:
lunge, bite, shove
Most accurate moves:
lunge, charge, tackle, weave, sweep
"Where there is enough evidence to charge someone with a crime, we vigorously prosecute, but not every wrong, or even every violation of the law, is a crime." - Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey
