NELSONC110
Combat 3.0 and TDPs
02/09/2012 08:27 PM CST
My concern is i have a 150th barbarian who was trained to forge when weapon skills were a must to forge. So having said that he has 4 weapons over 1k and about 6 over 600 with the current tdp calculation formula im going to be so far in the negative I will never climb out.. I was wondering why this is? It was almost required to forge not few years ago to have all blades blunts and even bows to be able to make a good quality product to sell, now anyone with enough mech can do it. Well im miffed about that but can live with it, now im being told that because i trained those weapons im gonna be docked tdps when 3.0 hits because its only the top 3 skills of my primary set....
just want to get some information because as im reading it, im not gonna be happy when 3.0 hits :(
DURATHING
Re: Combat 3.0 and TDPs
02/09/2012 08:33 PM CST
You're not going to lose TDPs, you're just going to receive them at half-speed until you make up the difference. (One for you, one for the debt - sorta system). All the ranks that are "lost" when the skills combine will be going into a general pool, and that pool will drain out into all your other skills as you gain experience (all your other skills will rank faster).
YAMCER
Re: Combat 3.0 and TDPs
02/09/2012 08:36 PM CST
<<now im being told that because i trained those weapons im gonna be docked tdps when 3.0 hits because its only the top 3 skills of my primary set....>>
You were told wrong.
Top 3 in primary, secondary, tertiary @ 125 ranks for 1 TDP
All skills not in the above @ 400 ranks for 1 TDP
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
You were told wrong.
Top 3 in primary, secondary, tertiary @ 125 ranks for 1 TDP
All skills not in the above @ 400 ranks for 1 TDP
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
RAIST
Re: Combat 3.0 and TDPs
02/09/2012 08:37 PM CST
You're an unfortunately casualty of the change due to being a statistical anomaly.
If you're asking WHY, then http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Skills_3.0 may help.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
If you're asking WHY, then http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Skills_3.0 may help.
Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance
KASRKYN
Re: Combat 3.0 and TDPs
02/09/2012 08:39 PM CST
Have you run your skill through one of the various calculators? While it's true the 4th highest and lower Weapons will give TDPs slower, the top 3 weapons will give TDPs at a faster rate, so it may not be as big a loss as you presume.
You'll also be gaining TDPs from Ranged and Melee Weapon Masteries that will be set in line with your weapons as well as your Barbarian specific skill that will be grandfathered to your level.
Tachid smugly exclaims, "Die midget!"
You'll also be gaining TDPs from Ranged and Melee Weapon Masteries that will be set in line with your weapons as well as your Barbarian specific skill that will be grandfathered to your level.
Tachid smugly exclaims, "Die midget!"
REASONMJ
Re: Combat 3.0 and TDPs
02/09/2012 09:02 PM CST
>>So having said that he has 4 weapons over 1k and about 6 over 600 with the current tdp calculation formula im going to be so far in the negative I will never climb out..
This isn't exactly true. You won't LOSE any TDPs, in that right after Skills 3.0 goes live, you will get to respec your TDPs by spending the exact number you had already earned before Skills 3.0 went live. Afterwards you will continue to gain TDPs at half the normal rate (per skill rank gained), but you'll have a massive "bonus exp" pool and will be learning many of your skills at double the rate, so in practice you'll be learning TDPs at relatively close to the normal rate.
In reality, the more "skill ranks you lose", the better off you are. You don't lose any effectiveness at any of your skills, you don't lose any TDPs, you continue gaining TDPs are fairly close to the "normal" rate, and you get a massive learning boost to many of your skills until you use up your bonus exp pool. You aren't being penalized at all, in fact you're gaining a massive bonus and I'm jealous
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Apu
This isn't exactly true. You won't LOSE any TDPs, in that right after Skills 3.0 goes live, you will get to respec your TDPs by spending the exact number you had already earned before Skills 3.0 went live. Afterwards you will continue to gain TDPs at half the normal rate (per skill rank gained), but you'll have a massive "bonus exp" pool and will be learning many of your skills at double the rate, so in practice you'll be learning TDPs at relatively close to the normal rate.
In reality, the more "skill ranks you lose", the better off you are. You don't lose any effectiveness at any of your skills, you don't lose any TDPs, you continue gaining TDPs are fairly close to the "normal" rate, and you get a massive learning boost to many of your skills until you use up your bonus exp pool. You aren't being penalized at all, in fact you're gaining a massive bonus and I'm jealous
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Apu
REASONMJ
Re: Combat 3.0 and TDPs
02/09/2012 09:03 PM CST
>>You're an unfortunately casualty of the change due to being a statistical anomaly.
I wish I could be a "casualty" of being forced into such a fortunate situation
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Apu
I wish I could be a "casualty" of being forced into such a fortunate situation
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Apu
NELSONC110
Re: Combat 3.0 and TDPs
02/09/2012 09:07 PM CST
thank you guys for the information! thats very very helpful, kind of relieving to hear about the pool thing. That could work even though ranking a 1k+ skill isnt easy as is lol.
MARTINCOTY77
Re: Combat 3.0 and TDPs
02/10/2012 11:59 AM CST
>>I wish I could be a "casualty" of being forced into such a fortunate situation
>>Apu
That made no sense. You do realize you get the bonus pool from combined skills too? I am sure the GMs can penalize you if you want.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
>>Apu
That made no sense. You do realize you get the bonus pool from combined skills too? I am sure the GMs can penalize you if you want.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
GORTEOUS
Re: Combat 3.0 and TDPs
02/10/2012 01:10 PM CST
Its good to know that I'm not the only person who sees this. Listening to the doomsayers gives me a headache.
I'm giddy about 3.0 and happy to be a 'statistical anomaly'.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
I'm giddy about 3.0 and happy to be a 'statistical anomaly'.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
BEVERAGEK
Re: Combat 3.0 and TDPs
02/10/2012 02:29 PM CST
Even without refractive field, I fully plan to train tactics to over 9000 and pwnz all of your faces with my tactical-ness. <cackles>
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
NELSONC110
Re: Combat 3.0 and TDPs
02/10/2012 03:13 PM CST
another question im gonna have, is if there is any plans to make dual wielding weapons more viable in 3.0, so far its really only useful when using a crossbow or for thiefs to throw dirt... now i have 1k in offhand with thrown and no real use for it right now.
SCHULTZS3
Re: Combat 3.0 and TDPs
02/10/2012 04:55 PM CST
Picture it this way.
All your skills that you are "losing", all the work that went into them is going into invisible (or maybe there will be a command to see what's left) bonus pools, that will then drain into the skills you do have left at 1 bit per bit of field exp, so your remaining skills will move at double rate until your bonus pools run dry.
That doesn't sound too bad, does it?
The bad side is that yes, you are probably in the TDP negative, and only gain TDPs at half rate until the new formula matches your old formula.
Kaeta Airtag
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
All your skills that you are "losing", all the work that went into them is going into invisible (or maybe there will be a command to see what's left) bonus pools, that will then drain into the skills you do have left at 1 bit per bit of field exp, so your remaining skills will move at double rate until your bonus pools run dry.
That doesn't sound too bad, does it?
The bad side is that yes, you are probably in the TDP negative, and only gain TDPs at half rate until the new formula matches your old formula.
Kaeta Airtag
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
MARTINCOTY77
Re: Combat 3.0 and TDPs
02/10/2012 05:25 PM CST
The TDP change is a penalty no matter how you look at it. Everyone gets the combined skill bonus, even those with a TDP surplus, thats fine. A skill goes away but you gain it back over time through the bonus pool. Cool. It's the skills that aren't being combined that suffer the penalty. A skill that was worth 2000 TDPs (assuming its not in your top 3 of anything) is now worth 1250. It's pretty cut and dry and straight forward. negative 750. People are confusing the two.
The part that makes it bearable is that you won't lose anything, you will still be just as good after the change as before the change. Because of this, if you enjoy the game now, it probably should be a non-factor in the whole scheme of things.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
The part that makes it bearable is that you won't lose anything, you will still be just as good after the change as before the change. Because of this, if you enjoy the game now, it probably should be a non-factor in the whole scheme of things.
Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons
BEVERAGEK
Re: Combat 3.0 and TDPs
02/10/2012 05:41 PM CST
I would say it just about balances out.
>>Everyone gets the combined skill bonus, even those with a TDP surplus, thats fine.
- This is roughly = +0 or possibly even +1 moral
>>A skill goes away but you gain it back over time through the bonus pool. Cool.
- What this should really say is you keep the same functionality, but you also learn skills within that same skillset at an accelerated rate.
- This is roughly = +1 moral
>>A skill that was worth 2000 TDPs (assuming its not in your top 3 of anything) is now worth 1250.
- You are forgetting the skills that are worth 1250 now which may be worth 2000 or more TDPs when the change happens. Some skills are worth less, some skills(your top 3 in each of primary and secondary skillsets, and top 3 out of all tertiary skillsets) are worth more.
- Overall, more skills are worth less TDPs so you could maybe rate this as = -1 moral
The TDP change is more comprehensive than just the fact that you're going into TDP debt.
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
>>Everyone gets the combined skill bonus, even those with a TDP surplus, thats fine.
- This is roughly = +0 or possibly even +1 moral
>>A skill goes away but you gain it back over time through the bonus pool. Cool.
- What this should really say is you keep the same functionality, but you also learn skills within that same skillset at an accelerated rate.
- This is roughly = +1 moral
>>A skill that was worth 2000 TDPs (assuming its not in your top 3 of anything) is now worth 1250.
- You are forgetting the skills that are worth 1250 now which may be worth 2000 or more TDPs when the change happens. Some skills are worth less, some skills(your top 3 in each of primary and secondary skillsets, and top 3 out of all tertiary skillsets) are worth more.
- Overall, more skills are worth less TDPs so you could maybe rate this as = -1 moral
The TDP change is more comprehensive than just the fact that you're going into TDP debt.
~Leilond
http://tinyurl.com/Leilond-Portrait
http://drzeal.forumotion.com Learn How to PvP!
REASONMJ
Re: Combat 3.0 and TDPs
02/10/2012 06:59 PM CST
>>That made no sense. You do realize you get the bonus pool from combined skills too?
This is true, I sort of connected two things that are almost always related (i.e. training a well rounded character tends to result in both "negative tdps" and large exp bonus pools), but that do not necessarily have to both be true (for example if you trained 12 weapons equally but none ended up being combined in 3.0). But it still USUALLY true that people complaining about gaining TDPs at half the normal rate will spend a good deal of time gaining ranks at ~double the rate
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Apu
This is true, I sort of connected two things that are almost always related (i.e. training a well rounded character tends to result in both "negative tdps" and large exp bonus pools), but that do not necessarily have to both be true (for example if you trained 12 weapons equally but none ended up being combined in 3.0). But it still USUALLY true that people complaining about gaining TDPs at half the normal rate will spend a good deal of time gaining ranks at ~double the rate
Apu
_
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Apu
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Combat 3.0 and TDPs
02/10/2012 07:10 PM CST
Leilond -
Do you still have a link to that TDP calculator you made? I wanna get an updated estimate!
Do you still have a link to that TDP calculator you made? I wanna get an updated estimate!
ILLIENA
Re: Combat 3.0 and TDPs
02/10/2012 07:15 PM CST
> Do you still have a link to that TDP calculator you made?
Bottom of the page:
http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Skills_3.0
Bottom of the page:
http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Skills_3.0
YAMCER
Re: Combat 3.0 and TDPs
02/10/2012 07:47 PM CST
Here is how I see the Math break down.
now if you have 10 skills at 600 ranks under the new system you'd have 3 in the top 3 and 7 in the "other"
The difference would be (1533) TDPs.
Now I'm confused on how the TDP pool(s) will work. Will the 1:125 and 1:400 each have a separate point pool where the partial or remainder ranks go?
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
| @ Rank 600 | Current | Top 3 | Other |
| TDPs | 901 | 1442 | 450 |
now if you have 10 skills at 600 ranks under the new system you'd have 3 in the top 3 and 7 in the "other"
| 10 skills @ 600 | Current | Top 3 | Other | Total |
| TDPs | 9015 | 4327 | 3155 | 7482 |
The difference would be (1533) TDPs.
Now I'm confused on how the TDP pool(s) will work. Will the 1:125 and 1:400 each have a separate point pool where the partial or remainder ranks go?
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
NELSONC110
Re: Combat 3.0 and TDPs
02/11/2012 10:10 AM CST
that spreadsheet breakdown, by looking at that i come up with a barbarian tdp pool of 57001 tdps. trying to figure out how thats comming up with that.
