There's no high balance one. A 2hb or 2he can reach pretty muchthe same or higher balance as an HE, and MEs can easily reach several ratings higher balance while stillhaving a template that is comparable in slice damage. As a user of HE and ME, I have mostly dropped HE in favor of ME. I just don't really see where HE fits in, I suppose. Slightly higher damage for the trade of having no templates that reach the higher balance appraisals? Is that actually something people are going to consider worth it in 3.0?

>>I just don't really see where HE fits in, I suppose.

HE's niche is for suitedness to strength.

Sure, you wont find a HE with as high balance as you can in ME templates, but you also won't find a ME that out damages this when it hits:

A haralun battle axe is a heavy edged melee-ranged weapon.

You are certain that it could do:
dismal puncture damage
very great slice damage
great impact damage

You are certain that the axe is dismally balanced and is superbly suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.

2HE:

Bastard sword: 40
Broadaxe: 40
Claymore: 45
Greatsword: 55

This is my current problem with combat system, actually. Assuming equal roundtimes, why use anything else? I can see ignoring the greatsword because the non-existent balance would make parrying difficult, but there is no reason to use any value below 40 (right now).

>>I can see ignoring the greatsword because the non-existent balance would make parrying difficult, but there is no reason to use any value below 40 (right now).

There is no drawback to using two-handed weapons right now. Everyone can just strap on an arm-worn shield and it doesn't matter because you get to use all of your shield ranks.

This is one of the proposed downsides to using two-handed weapons in the new system--A penalty to the shield skill.

~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
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>>Nerf the cutlass IMO.

You stay away from my cutlass. If anything needs nerfed its your Mirror blade - nerf Lielond.

Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons

>>Re-arrange those weapon stats to what you have in mind

Umm wat? I don't get it.

ME has a template that is probably going to slice about as hard as HE. It has a different template that reaches the second highest tier of balance at very high puncture on tyrium (rapier). Making it more diverse than HE.

I don't think I understand the reasoning behind comparing total point values...? It isn't like you can just shift those point values around at will, the templates force you to distribute them a certain way. You're making weapons like the Nimsha or the Cinqueda Leilond posted seem quite a bit better than they actually are, as you (or at least I) won't ever use the 6-8 puncture/slash damage I'm getting on it. Maybe in 3.0 that will change...but uhh, who knows when or if that's really happening at this point?

????

The problem isn't that their isn't a such thing as a high balanced Heavy Edge weapon, its that people don't sell them. Also for the most part those high-balance heavy edges have stats like a medium edges and lightened from their original template, to the point they fall into the range of... well non-lightened medium edges.

cinquedaheavy/fair/poor reasonably/fairly 29 stones

nimsha fair/s.heavy/s.fair reasonably/fairly 29 stones

pulled off of caraamon's site on epedia.

http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon

Also always ask a local forger first if you can't find what your looking for, they might be able to do what you want its just not something thats ever sold.

Like specific weights which are not usually up on the market.

P.S. somehow my keys stuck and it submitted the post before I was done, deleting the old post.

_______________________
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-John Milton

>>It's easy. The best Heavy Edge template nets you 34 total points. These 34 points are spread out among the 5 weapon stats--Puncture, Slice, Impact, Balance and Suitedness.

Oh, that is easy!

Something like the foil is what I would like to see. Or the Nimsha with a little less puncture and a little more slice. So the two I'd like I guess are:

say 12/3/6 10/3
and 4/11/6 7/5

I guess since I have ME and HB trained HE is really marginalized for me. HB hits harder (offers a harder hitting better balance alternative too) and ME can achieve similar slice weapons but also offers the foil in case I run up against something absurdly hard to hit. Maybe that means I'm just in a unique spot where HE seems cruddy.

I can't tell if you are referring to game balance or trying to apply real world logic to DR. If it's the latter, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

The best HE template I see on elanthipedia is Codiax's 52 stone broadsword, which I imagine is haralun. It has 34 total value.

I'd be happy with HE having a template that can reach 10 balance and great or higher puncture or slice. A foil can reach Very Heavy puncture and 11 balance with special metals.

>> The act of removing or increasing weight is supposed to help steer the balance/suit of the weapon. It does have aside effect of increasing or decreasing its overall point total but their should never be a 7 volume lead-weighted weapon thats excellent balance, and I do mean never.

I don't really understand what you're saying here. Lowering density decreases weight and damage stats but gains balance. If you're talking about honing, you trade some weight for impact. No clue what you're on about with the "lead-weighted" weapon business.

Anyway, I've made my complaint. The new weapon templates caused me to drop HE. Maybe in 3.0 there will be some reason to use a falchion, which is a nifty template (doubt it though, the new armors are all stacked on slice protection, making a blunt weapon an easy choice).

>I think this might not be the case once people see more than metal armors in crafting 3.0. I also think heavier weapons are also going to benefit from being bigger and heavier in 3.0. It wouldn't shock me if someone using shield to block your 100 stone club will have a totally difference experience than if you were using your 10 stone dagger.

You mean the old force of impact idea? Will there be something like that in 3.0?

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>>The best HE template I see on elanthipedia is Codiax's 52 stone broadsword, which I imagine is haralun. It has 34 total value.

Again in order for a steel broadsword to be 52 stones it had to be mixed with another metal to increase the density, the heavier the end product is relative to the 5 density stand, the less the balance and the greater the suitedness. For weapon like a broadsword to have reasonable balance(not even the point where your asking it) at 52 stones it would have to have unbelievable balance at 35. If you can't see how that completely utterly breaks game balance of weapons then it'd be obvious that you cannot reach a suitable and balanced(gamewise) adjustment to the HE template that would satisfy you.

>>> The act of removing or increasing weight is supposed to help steer the balance/suit of the weapon. It does have aside effect of increasing or decreasing its overall point total but their should never be a 7 volume lead-weighted weapon thats excellent balance, and I do mean never.

>I don't really understand what you're saying here. Lowering density decreases weight and damage stats but gains balance. If you're talking about honing, you trade some weight for impact. No clue what you're on about with the "lead-weighted" weapon business.

Lead-weighted means that you get steel and you add lead into the mix so that you increase its overall density, like I've said previously and even in this post doing so will decrease its balance and increase its suitedness it will also increase the overall total points given to the template. If it sounds like I'm talking chinese here let me know I'll try to dumb it down abit.

You cannot base a template for a weapon on a superweapon. 5 is the standard density, steel is the standard metal. At HCS 5 density all templates are 31, this is your base. If you wish to have increased balance you reduce the density below the base, if you want increased damage at the cost of balance you increase the density past the base.

Its proper logic when determining game balance, if you want a 52 stone weapon that has a 35 stone baseweight to have well balance and fair suitedness it has to have at 35 stones, several levels above well balance and no suitedness for strength what so ever, at all.

The first weapon your proposing if that was high-weight rare metal version of it would have unbelieveable balance and no suitedness using hcs at 35 stones. If this makes sense for a HEAVY weapon, I don't know where your logic is coming from.
_______________________
As good almost kill a man as kill a good book; who kills a man kills a reasonable creature, God's image; but he who destroys a good book, kills reason itself, kills the image of God, as it were in the eye.
-John Milton

>>5 is the standard density, steel is the standard metal.
>...umm wat? You're just arbitrarily setting the standard as steel... What does it matter if we're discussing weapon templates as long as the metal isn't variable you can still analyze it perfectly accurately with any metal?

Pure steel is considered the baseline because forged steel items are comparable to their store-bought counterparts.

>>>I'd love that to be true (would've saved me a fortune on rare metals), but it ain't. A nimsha at 50 stones has 1 or 2 less balance than a nimsha at 29 stones.

If you are meaning that a nimsha @ 50 stones is (06)decently balanced vs. 29 stone (07)reasonably balanced, the difference could be between 1-19 points of balance between the two weapons.

>>Similarly a foil at minimum weight in glaes has 1 higher balance than a foil at maximum weight in haralun.

Glaes and haralun have completely different densities and is why steel is used as a baseline for comparisons.

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