So I thought the calc was:
30% of Weapon
70% of Offhand skill
LE:1=0, basically
Offhand: 74=64
But...
>attack left
< Moving weakly, you lunge a carving knife at a silver leucro. A silver leucro evades.
[You're incredibly balanced and in dominating position.]
[Roundtime 3 sec.]
R>
-Stayn
SMTHSAILN
MOOK1
Re: Weak Offhand
08/11/2009 11:26 PM CDT
Two things:
1. A change was made in the offhand calcs a while back that caps the effective skill at or near to weapon ranks to prevent people with much higher offhand ranks than weapon ranks to bypass needing weapon ranks. Kinda like what you're trying to do.
2. Unless you severely outclass silver leucros stat-wise, you aren't going to be hitting them much at all with only 64 effective weapon ranks.
-Evran
Crackling with unspent rage since 386A.V.
1. A change was made in the offhand calcs a while back that caps the effective skill at or near to weapon ranks to prevent people with much higher offhand ranks than weapon ranks to bypass needing weapon ranks. Kinda like what you're trying to do.
2. Unless you severely outclass silver leucros stat-wise, you aren't going to be hitting them much at all with only 64 effective weapon ranks.
-Evran
Crackling with unspent rage since 386A.V.
DR-OOLAN
Re: Weak Offhand
08/11/2009 11:32 PM CDT
>>1. A change was made in the offhand calcs a while back that caps the effective skill at or near to weapon ranks to prevent people with much higher offhand ranks than weapon ranks to bypass needing weapon ranks. Kinda like what you're trying to do.
This. Being good at using your off hand should not make you perform better with a weapon than when used in your main hand. Ever. As good as if you have the skill, sure. But not better off-handed than used normally.
GM Oolan Jeel
"The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice."
- Richard Moore
This. Being good at using your off hand should not make you perform better with a weapon than when used in your main hand. Ever. As good as if you have the skill, sure. But not better off-handed than used normally.
GM Oolan Jeel
"The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice."
- Richard Moore
SMTHSAILN
Re: Weak Offhand
08/11/2009 11:32 PM CDT
<<Kinda like what you're trying to do.
Damn. This was the whole purpose to why I trained it.
<<Unless you severely outclass silver leucros stat-wise, you aren't going to be hitting them much at all with only 64 effective weapon ranks.
Well I was basing it off the "Moving weakly" as an indicator "of ranks" as the effectiveness of my attack.
FWIW. I can kill them with 57 in LT, with 20 agil/str/ref
-Stayn
Damn. This was the whole purpose to why I trained it.
<<Unless you severely outclass silver leucros stat-wise, you aren't going to be hitting them much at all with only 64 effective weapon ranks.
Well I was basing it off the "Moving weakly" as an indicator "of ranks" as the effectiveness of my attack.
FWIW. I can kill them with 57 in LT, with 20 agil/str/ref
-Stayn
GRIM45
Re: Weak Offhand
08/11/2009 11:34 PM CDT
>>FWIW. I can kill them with 57 in LT, with 20 agil/str/ref
Basing expected melee success against ranged success is not a good comparison. It may not be 100% invalid in this case (not sure if they can "parry" or not), but still not a good idea.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.
Basing expected melee success against ranged success is not a good comparison. It may not be 100% invalid in this case (not sure if they can "parry" or not), but still not a good idea.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.
SMTHSAILN
Re: Weak Offhand
08/11/2009 11:36 PM CDT
<<Being good at using your off hand should not make you perform better with a weapon than when used in your main hand.
I kill faster with my throwing blades coming from my left hand. Thoughts?
I am not sure what the point of the skill is then.
-Stayn
I kill faster with my throwing blades coming from my left hand. Thoughts?
I am not sure what the point of the skill is then.
-Stayn
SMTHSAILN
Re: Weak Offhand
08/11/2009 11:37 PM CDT
<<It may not be 100% invalid in this case (not sure if they can "parry" or not), but still not a good idea.
No shield, no parry.
-Stayn
No shield, no parry.
-Stayn
DR-OOLAN
Re: Weak Offhand
08/11/2009 11:42 PM CDT
<<Being good at using your off hand should not make you perform better with a weapon than when used in your main hand.
>>I kill faster with my throwing blades coming from my left hand. Thoughts?
Faster from your left hand than using the same blades right handed?
>>I am not sure what the point of the skill is then.
Fair criticism. Offhand skill in and of itself currently exists only to give you the skill to train and allow off handed attacks. It is a lead in to true dual wielding combat in which you can attack with two weapons either simultaniously or in an offset manner. The specifics of how this will work out are still being determined. However, Ssra released this use of the offhand skill so that you folks had plenty of lead time to train it up prior to full dual wield combat. Train it or not as you see fit for your character with that eventual goal in mind.
GM Oolan Jeel
"The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice."
- Richard Moore
>>I kill faster with my throwing blades coming from my left hand. Thoughts?
Faster from your left hand than using the same blades right handed?
>>I am not sure what the point of the skill is then.
Fair criticism. Offhand skill in and of itself currently exists only to give you the skill to train and allow off handed attacks. It is a lead in to true dual wielding combat in which you can attack with two weapons either simultaniously or in an offset manner. The specifics of how this will work out are still being determined. However, Ssra released this use of the offhand skill so that you folks had plenty of lead time to train it up prior to full dual wield combat. Train it or not as you see fit for your character with that eventual goal in mind.
GM Oolan Jeel
"The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice."
- Richard Moore
MOOK1
Re: Weak Offhand
08/11/2009 11:49 PM CDT
<<I kill faster with my throwing blades coming from my left hand. Thoughts?
Subjective observation. Its easy to convince oneself of things that aren't true if one believe's that they are or should be true.
<<I am not sure what the point of the skill is then.
Right now, not a lot and they're mostly conveniences rather than abilities:
1. Being able to throw one handed throwing weapons without having to juggle weapons.
2. Being able to train two weapons without needing to juggle weapons as much.
The skill was designed with room for expansion, and it was explicitly stated when it was released that we were given the basics in advance so we can train in anticipation of the coolness to come. I imagine once the new combat changes get rolled out we'll start seeing things show up.
I'd keep training the skill, since its easy-peasy to do and will have more use in the future.
-Evran
Crackling with unspent rage since 386A.V.
Subjective observation. Its easy to convince oneself of things that aren't true if one believe's that they are or should be true.
<<I am not sure what the point of the skill is then.
Right now, not a lot and they're mostly conveniences rather than abilities:
1. Being able to throw one handed throwing weapons without having to juggle weapons.
2. Being able to train two weapons without needing to juggle weapons as much.
The skill was designed with room for expansion, and it was explicitly stated when it was released that we were given the basics in advance so we can train in anticipation of the coolness to come. I imagine once the new combat changes get rolled out we'll start seeing things show up.
I'd keep training the skill, since its easy-peasy to do and will have more use in the future.
-Evran
Crackling with unspent rage since 386A.V.
MOOK1
Re: Weak Offhand
08/11/2009 11:53 PM CDT
Bah, I write out my thoughts too slowly. Oolan got the jump on me by seven minutes. /boo
-Evran
Crackling with unspent rage since 386A.V.
-Evran
Crackling with unspent rage since 386A.V.
SMTHSAILN
Re: Weak Offhand
08/11/2009 11:54 PM CDT
<<Faster from your left hand than using the same blades right handed?
I retract this statement. I just threw five blades both ways. Both equally dropped the leuc to slightly battered.
<<Fair criticism.
Sorry. I was actually just hoping people would chime in with ideas. :)
<<However, Ssra released this use of the offhand skill so that you folks had plenty of lead time to train it up prior to full dual wield combat. Train it or not as you see fit for your character with that eventual goal in mind.
Will do. Thanks for the response.
-Stayn
I retract this statement. I just threw five blades both ways. Both equally dropped the leuc to slightly battered.
<<Fair criticism.
Sorry. I was actually just hoping people would chime in with ideas. :)
<<However, Ssra released this use of the offhand skill so that you folks had plenty of lead time to train it up prior to full dual wield combat. Train it or not as you see fit for your character with that eventual goal in mind.
Will do. Thanks for the response.
-Stayn
SMTHSAILN
Re: Weak Offhand
08/11/2009 11:58 PM CDT
<<<Subjective observation.
Yes.
<<Its easy to convince oneself of things that aren't true if one believe's that they are or should be true.
I didn't "want" to believe either way, I just "noticed" more harmless strikes with right handed throws. But then I post facto realized that might of been me having Sure Footing on and off.
I appreciate everyone's input though.
-Stayn
Yes.
<<Its easy to convince oneself of things that aren't true if one believe's that they are or should be true.
I didn't "want" to believe either way, I just "noticed" more harmless strikes with right handed throws. But then I post facto realized that might of been me having Sure Footing on and off.
I appreciate everyone's input though.
-Stayn
SAUVA
Re: Weak Offhand
08/12/2009 08:29 AM CDT
>> FWIW. I can kill them with 57 in LT, with 20 agil/str/ref
>Basing expected melee success against ranged success is not a good comparison
Thrown uses melee calcs, not ranged calcs.
Furthermore, I can not hit fledgeling gryphons with 106 LT from the right hand when throwing at melee. I can kill the same gryphons if I swap the throwing blades to my left hand (187 offhand). I only tested this on 4 gryphons, so it's not like this is a fool-proof test, but something's going on here (maybe it's just balance/luck).
~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
Tolle says, "Yup yup, 'bout time. What the heck took you so long?"
>Basing expected melee success against ranged success is not a good comparison
Thrown uses melee calcs, not ranged calcs.
Furthermore, I can not hit fledgeling gryphons with 106 LT from the right hand when throwing at melee. I can kill the same gryphons if I swap the throwing blades to my left hand (187 offhand). I only tested this on 4 gryphons, so it's not like this is a fool-proof test, but something's going on here (maybe it's just balance/luck).
~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
Tolle says, "Yup yup, 'bout time. What the heck took you so long?"
GRIM45
Re: Weak Offhand
08/12/2009 09:45 AM CDT
>>Thrown uses melee calcs, not ranged calcs.
But still doesn't take into consideration parry. (Although as I said, may not be a consideration in that EXACT instance) It is not a good idea, in general.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.
But still doesn't take into consideration parry. (Although as I said, may not be a consideration in that EXACT instance) It is not a good idea, in general.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: Weak Offhand
08/12/2009 09:31 PM CDT
>This. Being good at using your off hand should not make you perform better with a weapon than when used in your main hand. Ever. As good as if you have the skill, sure. But not better off-handed than used normally.
Can OH ranks ever be a bonus? Or are they always going to be either a penalty, up to 'none' at best?
Can OH ranks ever be a bonus? Or are they always going to be either a penalty, up to 'none' at best?
XAXOR12
Re: Weak Offhand
08/12/2009 10:09 PM CDT
>>I'd keep training the skill, since its easy-peasy to do and will have more use in the future.
I must not be doing it right, because I have to completely wreck a room full of critters to move offhand. How are you training it?
I must not be doing it right, because I have to completely wreck a room full of critters to move offhand. How are you training it?
MOOK1
Re: Weak Offhand
08/12/2009 10:18 PM CDT
<<I must not be doing it right, because I have to completely wreck a room full of critters to move offhand. How are you training it?
Throwing blades from the left hand. Offhand will lock about the same time that LT gets to 20/34 or so at which point I swap hands and finish up LT from the main hand.
Occasionally I pull out the dual-wield weapons for style points and do all the heavier hits with the off hand, but that's not often.
-Evran
Crackling with unspent rage since 386A.V.
Throwing blades from the left hand. Offhand will lock about the same time that LT gets to 20/34 or so at which point I swap hands and finish up LT from the main hand.
Occasionally I pull out the dual-wield weapons for style points and do all the heavier hits with the off hand, but that's not often.
-Evran
Crackling with unspent rage since 386A.V.
DR-OOLAN
Re: Weak Offhand
08/13/2009 06:08 AM CDT
>>Can OH ranks ever be a bonus? Or are they always going to be either a penalty, up to 'none' at best?
Depends upon how you look at it. As things stand right now the answer is no, it won't be a bonus. When dual wield is more fully implimented so that you can have two attacks occuring at the same time, then I would argue that is the bonus to off hand attacks. But I don't see how or why it should provide a bonus to the attack in and of itself.
GM Oolan Jeel
"The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice."
- Richard Moore
Depends upon how you look at it. As things stand right now the answer is no, it won't be a bonus. When dual wield is more fully implimented so that you can have two attacks occuring at the same time, then I would argue that is the bonus to off hand attacks. But I don't see how or why it should provide a bonus to the attack in and of itself.
GM Oolan Jeel
"The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice."
- Richard Moore
