Out of curiosity, does anyone know if the nightmare black (cowl, gloves) hinder any less than shalswar? At a first glance they don't seem to, but I know very little about armor so I'm unsure if this is true or not.
I was curious because their overall appraisal seems to be nearly identical (other than their durability), which isn't enough to make me spend 2k on either of them. Would a complete Nightmare set lower hindrance (for a tert) below Light, or is that as good as I can get without swapping back to Firecat Leathers?
STILVA
JWOOD123
Re: Nightmare Leather vs Shalswar Leather
08/29/2013 09:57 AM CDT
I've been eyeing this, hoping one of these breathing DR data storage units would answer. I'm interested as well. Armor and the magic system have been the hardest things for me to wrap my head around so far.
"Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child." -Heinlein
"Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child." -Heinlein
NINEVAH1
Re: Nightmare Leather vs Shalswar Leather
08/29/2013 10:55 AM CDT
Without extensive testing this would be hard to say one way or the other. My suggestion would be to compare the weights of the nightmare and shalswar pieces. (I'm a bit too busy and lazy to do it myself) If the nightmare pieces are lighter then my guess would be that they have less hinderance than the shalswar pieces. It will be negligible though since they are in the same range, and would only be a point or two on each piece.
Again I haven't done much comparison and testing with either types, but the nightmare leathers appear to be the same as shalswar in the protection department just lighter and less hindering. It would be a safe bet that the accessory pieces follow this mold too. The real decision is are those few points in hinderance and weight worth what it takes to get the pieces? That is up to you though.
To answer your question about the best setup for hinderance. IMO I have not found anything outside cloth armor that has the hinderance of old firecats. If you want minimum hinderance then go back with firecats or look for the cloth hauberk from Stolen from the Moons. That has better protection, same hinderance, and weighs only 75(?) stones. I prefer the bone hauberk from the same place personally though. It has great protection that is on par with the nightmare leathers with the same hinderance, but weigh only 150 stones.
Now IMO I would forget the nightmare accessories and stick with something a bit cheaper because you are not going to see any difference if they are in the same ranges on hinderance. The bulk of your hinderance is going to come from your body pieces and shield (and mixing armors, but that doesn't sound like it applies here). You are not going to get below light hinderance unless you get the most least hindering pieces you can find. I would try to balance between your protection and staying within the light hinderance range myself.
Again I haven't done much comparison and testing with either types, but the nightmare leathers appear to be the same as shalswar in the protection department just lighter and less hindering. It would be a safe bet that the accessory pieces follow this mold too. The real decision is are those few points in hinderance and weight worth what it takes to get the pieces? That is up to you though.
To answer your question about the best setup for hinderance. IMO I have not found anything outside cloth armor that has the hinderance of old firecats. If you want minimum hinderance then go back with firecats or look for the cloth hauberk from Stolen from the Moons. That has better protection, same hinderance, and weighs only 75(?) stones. I prefer the bone hauberk from the same place personally though. It has great protection that is on par with the nightmare leathers with the same hinderance, but weigh only 150 stones.
Now IMO I would forget the nightmare accessories and stick with something a bit cheaper because you are not going to see any difference if they are in the same ranges on hinderance. The bulk of your hinderance is going to come from your body pieces and shield (and mixing armors, but that doesn't sound like it applies here). You are not going to get below light hinderance unless you get the most least hindering pieces you can find. I would try to balance between your protection and staying within the light hinderance range myself.
JWOOD123
Re: Nightmare Leather vs Shalswar Leather
08/29/2013 11:03 AM CDT
Thanks. Grabbing the side pieces isn't really a problem, since I'm doing most of the available Aftermath runs. I highly appreciate the info provided.
"Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child." -Heinlein
"Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child." -Heinlein
ELRIIC
Re: Nightmare Leather vs Shalswar Leather
08/29/2013 11:38 AM CDT
For your data calculation needs:
You feel certain that some nightmare black leathers appear to impose high (9/15) maneuvering hindrance and fair (5/15) stealth hindrance, offering:
great (9/15) protection and very good (8/18) damage absorption for puncture attacks.
high (7/15) protection and very good (8/18) damage absorption for slice attacks.
very high (8/15) protection and very good (8/18) damage absorption for impact attacks.
good (5/15) protection and fair (5/18) damage absorption for fire attacks.
good (5/15) protection and fair (5/18) damage absorption for cold attacks.
moderate (4/15) protection and somewhat fair (4/18) damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only wearing some nightmare black leathers you could expect your maneuvering to be barely (1/14) hindered and your stealth to be lightly (4/14) hindered.
You are certain that the black leathers are extremely resistant to damage (15/18), and are rather scuffed up (70-79%).
The black leathers are moderately soft.
*You are certain that the black leathers weighs exactly 220 stones.*
You feel certain that a hooded silverweave cowl lined with softened nightmare black leather appears to impose light (3/15) maneuvering hindrance and insignificant (1/15) stealth hindrance, offering:
great (9/15) protection and very good (8/18) damage absorption for puncture attacks.
high (7/15) protection and very good (8/18) damage absorption for slice attacks.
very high (8/15) protection and very good (8/18) damage absorption for impact attacks.
good (5/15) protection and fair (5/18) damage absorption for fire attacks.
good (5/15) protection and fair (5/18) damage absorption for cold attacks.
moderate (4/15) protection and somewhat fair (4/18) damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only wearing a hooded silverweave cowl lined with softened nightmare black leather you could expect your maneuvering to be barely (1/14) hindered and your stealth to be barely (1/14) hindered.
You are certain that the silverweave cowl is extremely resistant to damage (15/18), and is rather scuffed up (70-79%).
The silverweave cowl is moderately soft.
*You are certain that the silverweave cowl weighs exactly 48 stones.*
You feel certain that some nightmare black gloves appear to impose insignificant (1/15) maneuvering hindrance and insignificant (1/15) stealth hindrance, offering:
great (9/15) protection and very good (8/18) damage absorption for puncture attacks.
high (7/15) protection and very good (8/18) damage absorption for slice attacks.
very high (8/15) protection and very good (8/18) damage absorption for impact attacks.
good (5/15) protection and fair (5/18) damage absorption for fire attacks.
good (5/15) protection and fair (5/18) damage absorption for cold attacks.
moderate (4/15) protection and somewhat fair (4/18) damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only wearing some nightmare black gloves you could expect your maneuvering to be barely (1/14) hindered and your stealth to be unhindered (0/14).
You are certain that the black gloves are extremely resistant to damage (15/18), and are in good condition (80-89%).
The black gloves are quite supple.
*You are certain that the black gloves weighs exactly 20 stones.*
--
In memory of Lisa/Martee. Passed 6/17/2013. A friend. A sister.
You feel certain that some nightmare black leathers appear to impose high (9/15) maneuvering hindrance and fair (5/15) stealth hindrance, offering:
great (9/15) protection and very good (8/18) damage absorption for puncture attacks.
high (7/15) protection and very good (8/18) damage absorption for slice attacks.
very high (8/15) protection and very good (8/18) damage absorption for impact attacks.
good (5/15) protection and fair (5/18) damage absorption for fire attacks.
good (5/15) protection and fair (5/18) damage absorption for cold attacks.
moderate (4/15) protection and somewhat fair (4/18) damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only wearing some nightmare black leathers you could expect your maneuvering to be barely (1/14) hindered and your stealth to be lightly (4/14) hindered.
You are certain that the black leathers are extremely resistant to damage (15/18), and are rather scuffed up (70-79%).
The black leathers are moderately soft.
*You are certain that the black leathers weighs exactly 220 stones.*
You feel certain that a hooded silverweave cowl lined with softened nightmare black leather appears to impose light (3/15) maneuvering hindrance and insignificant (1/15) stealth hindrance, offering:
great (9/15) protection and very good (8/18) damage absorption for puncture attacks.
high (7/15) protection and very good (8/18) damage absorption for slice attacks.
very high (8/15) protection and very good (8/18) damage absorption for impact attacks.
good (5/15) protection and fair (5/18) damage absorption for fire attacks.
good (5/15) protection and fair (5/18) damage absorption for cold attacks.
moderate (4/15) protection and somewhat fair (4/18) damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only wearing a hooded silverweave cowl lined with softened nightmare black leather you could expect your maneuvering to be barely (1/14) hindered and your stealth to be barely (1/14) hindered.
You are certain that the silverweave cowl is extremely resistant to damage (15/18), and is rather scuffed up (70-79%).
The silverweave cowl is moderately soft.
*You are certain that the silverweave cowl weighs exactly 48 stones.*
You feel certain that some nightmare black gloves appear to impose insignificant (1/15) maneuvering hindrance and insignificant (1/15) stealth hindrance, offering:
great (9/15) protection and very good (8/18) damage absorption for puncture attacks.
high (7/15) protection and very good (8/18) damage absorption for slice attacks.
very high (8/15) protection and very good (8/18) damage absorption for impact attacks.
good (5/15) protection and fair (5/18) damage absorption for fire attacks.
good (5/15) protection and fair (5/18) damage absorption for cold attacks.
moderate (4/15) protection and somewhat fair (4/18) damage absorption for electrical attacks.
If you were only wearing some nightmare black gloves you could expect your maneuvering to be barely (1/14) hindered and your stealth to be unhindered (0/14).
You are certain that the black gloves are extremely resistant to damage (15/18), and are in good condition (80-89%).
The black gloves are quite supple.
*You are certain that the black gloves weighs exactly 20 stones.*
--
In memory of Lisa/Martee. Passed 6/17/2013. A friend. A sister.
STILVA
Re: Nightmare Leather vs Shalswar Leather
08/30/2013 12:56 PM CDT
>For your data calculation needs:
I have the body armor already (wanted the moonsilver cloth hauberk but cheapest I saw was 25k...which...no.), was more curious to if a full nightmare set would drop me below 'light' hindrance (as opposed to nightmare leathers+shalswar accs).
>If you were only wearing some nightmare black leathers you could expect your maneuvering to be barely (1/14) hindered and your stealth to be lightly (4/14) hindered.
This does confuse me, though...do warmies get some passive hindrance bonus? Being armor/survival tert I'd have thought they would get the exact same hindrance as a cleric, and YS doesn't reduce hindrance anymore.
I have the body armor already (wanted the moonsilver cloth hauberk but cheapest I saw was 25k...which...no.), was more curious to if a full nightmare set would drop me below 'light' hindrance (as opposed to nightmare leathers+shalswar accs).
>If you were only wearing some nightmare black leathers you could expect your maneuvering to be barely (1/14) hindered and your stealth to be lightly (4/14) hindered.
This does confuse me, though...do warmies get some passive hindrance bonus? Being armor/survival tert I'd have thought they would get the exact same hindrance as a cleric, and YS doesn't reduce hindrance anymore.
ELRIIC
Re: Nightmare Leather vs Shalswar Leather
08/30/2013 03:53 PM CDT
<<This does confuse me, though...do warmies get some passive hindrance bonus? Being armor/survival tert I'd have thought they would get the exact same hindrance as a cleric, and YS doesn't reduce hindrance anymore.
I wear plate, but I have trained light armor in the past so I'm getting some hinderance drop because of my light armor ranks... I think that's what you're seeing. YS adds ranks to your armor skill so you'll notice some benefit if you haven't 'capped' your maximum hinderance removal. Beyond that, there's no reason to use it.
If you contact me in-game, I can arrange it so you can try a whole set on and see what your hinderance would be if you like.
--
In memory of Lisa/Martee. Passed 6/17/2013. A friend. A sister.
I wear plate, but I have trained light armor in the past so I'm getting some hinderance drop because of my light armor ranks... I think that's what you're seeing. YS adds ranks to your armor skill so you'll notice some benefit if you haven't 'capped' your maximum hinderance removal. Beyond that, there's no reason to use it.
If you contact me in-game, I can arrange it so you can try a whole set on and see what your hinderance would be if you like.
--
In memory of Lisa/Martee. Passed 6/17/2013. A friend. A sister.
STILVA
Re: Nightmare Leather vs Shalswar Leather
08/30/2013 06:33 PM CDT
>I wear plate, but I have trained light armor in the past so I'm getting some hinderance drop because of my light armor ranks... I think that's what you're seeing. YS adds ranks to your armor skill so you'll notice some benefit if you haven't 'capped' your maximum hinderance removal. Beyond that, there's no reason to use it.
May I ask what your Light Armor skill is? I'm around 525 or so and I still get Insignificant hindrance on Nightmares. I actually thought armor hindrance trained away/hit the reduction cap much earlier than that, but I'd be quite happy if I'm wrong.
>If you contact me in-game, I can arrange it so you can try a whole set on and see what your hinderance would be if you like.
If you wouldn't mind, it'd be appreciated. Not knowing is pretty much the only thing stopping me from buying the gloves/cowl at this point. :<
May I ask what your Light Armor skill is? I'm around 525 or so and I still get Insignificant hindrance on Nightmares. I actually thought armor hindrance trained away/hit the reduction cap much earlier than that, but I'd be quite happy if I'm wrong.
>If you contact me in-game, I can arrange it so you can try a whole set on and see what your hinderance would be if you like.
If you wouldn't mind, it'd be appreciated. Not knowing is pretty much the only thing stopping me from buying the gloves/cowl at this point. :<
KHIOL
Re: Nightmare Leather vs Shalswar Leather
09/01/2013 10:03 AM CDT
Armor has a static low cap per guild/skillset placement as far as I can tell. So at some point you hit that cap and it doesn't matter if you have damite chain or lumium ring on you have the hinderance worked down to your static low-end caps. This was tested with a lumium ring hauberk and damite ring hauberk on a character with 650ish chain skill. Same evasion and stealth hinderance in both.
You feel a brief sense of unease, as if somehow, somewhere, you'd run afoul of the law.
You feel a brief sense of unease, as if somehow, somewhere, you'd run afoul of the law.
