I wouldn't bother dropping it. as soon as the skill combine hits... HC and LC will be the same Chain skill anyways, and if you are able to hide on at level mobs, then you should take every bit of protection you can come up with.

Illimin

Your stealth is currently somewhat hindered, which is a tad high for a high-stealth setup. You want to be down at lightly really, or fairly at the very most.

In general, shop around for things that are less stealth-hindering than what you already have. Some more specific ideas:

1) Try swapping to HC head, LC legs. Greaves tend to be more hindering than head gear. The down side is you will learn less HC with only head/hands. But, as has been mentioned, these two skills will be combining in the future so you don't have to fret about it much.

2) Repair your armor. I don't know if battered armor affects hindrance, but it can't hurt to check.

3) Look into some lumium gear. Lumium is currently, I believe, the lighest and least hindering metal armor there is. Try talking to Kraggur about it; he made me a nice lumium HC balaclava. However, based on my own scanty data collection so far, I haven't actually seen a difference myself in stealth hindrance between lumium and regular -- it's just something for you to check out. Specifically, I haven't looked yet at lumium shirts, and that may be what you want to try.

4) Try looking for some of the Kanton killing field armor. These always take the form of "some <adjective> <metal> <armor piece>", such as "some engraved bronze chain greaves." I haven't made enough comparisons yet to see if they are more stealth-friendly in the LC/HC gear, but they are generally pretty good armor pieces and worth a look.

Finally, just FYI, but I have an armor-tert character with 200s armors who's wearing a LC/HC/leather mix (HC head, LC shirt, leather gloves/greaves), with light stealth hindrance. So I can guarantee that at least can be done. The main down side is that leather greaves are currently pretty terrible protection.


-- Player of Eyuve

There definitely is a hindrance difference, even between properly weighted lumium and natural steel. If you do with "pure" lumium it will get even lower. One of the chain pieces with the most notably reduced stealth hindrance is the ring hauberk (see below for a comparison against chain). A lot of chain pieces are very close in hinderance, but I haven't started to do any complete-set aggregate testing yet, but from some partial set testing, there are differences.


Chain-class Hauberks
ring noticable (8) moderate (7)
chain high (9) significant (10)


~Kraggur

---

DR Armorcrafting 3.0:
http://tinyurl.com/drarmor3

DR Crafting Calc:
http://tinyurl.com/DRCraftCalc

Stealth hindrance is a bit confusing to me. I didn't know there were exceptions to the "by armor type only" rule (excepting perhaps some outdated pieces), I'll have to keep a look out.

IMO one of the tricky things about the new forging system is that all the chain greaves come out HC, so have a pretty significant stealth hindrance when compared to say, storebought LC greaves. I can't quite make or afford an LC robe or hauberk yet, so I've been using leather legs. Fortunately, according to Elanthipedia, there is no stealth hindrance penalty to mixing armors -- but the armor stats on them are pretty poor.

Anyway, I'm still devoted to finding the best no-swap stealth setup that incorporates chain (or even plate!) so if anyone has any feedback I'd appreciate it.

>Anyway, I'm still devoted to finding the best no-swap stealth setup that incorporates chain (or even plate!) so if anyone has any feedback I'd appreciate it.

Cop-out/obvious answer, but I'd wait for Crafting 3.0 leather/cloth/bone releases before making any significant moves.

<<IMO one of the tricky things about the new forging system is that all the chain greaves come out HC>>

It is a bit odd. I was quite surprised when my 3 density mail greaves turned out to be HC. Have we heard if this is on the bug fix list?

Kaxis

---

>look dock
>I could not find what you were referring to.

>look wharf
>It's a wooden dock that has served its purpose for many years.

>You ponder.

<<Also, for what it's worth, pieces that can swap between HC and LC have had no demonstrable difference in stealth hindrances.

I was curious about what you said and decided to test it myself. So I whipped up some steel from the forge supply. I actually got different results which support the armor type = stealth hindrance idea.

---

First balaclava is 20 volume medium steel. MAMA's weight of 100 stones.

>app bala
The chain balaclava is light chain. ...

You feel certain that a steel chain balaclava appears to impose trivial maneuvering hindrance and trivial stealth hindrance, offering:
moderate protection and very high damage absorption for puncture attacks. ...

---

Second balaclava is 20 volume med steel cut with 2 nickel nuggets. MAMA's weight of 101 stones.

>app bala
The chain balaclava is heavy chain. ...

You feel certain that a steel chain balaclava appears to impose trivial maneuvering hindrance and light stealth hindrance, offering:
moderate protection and very high damage absorption for puncture attacks. ...

---

And then just for funsies I decided to reinforce the LC balaclava and lighten to HC balaclava to see what happens. :)

>>app bala
The chain balaclava is heavy chain. ....

You feel certain that a steel chain balaclava with a reinforced design appears to impose light maneuvering hindrance and light stealth hindrance, offering:
good protection and very high damage absorption for puncture attacks. ...

(120 Stones)

---

>app bala
The chain balaclava is light chain. ...

You feel certain that a steel chain balaclava with trimmed links appears to impose trivial maneuvering hindrance and trivial stealth hindrance, offering:
moderate protection and very high damage absorption for puncture attacks. ...

(90 Stones)

---

Full disclosure, I can't mastercraft midsteel chain balaclavas with my meager 160 Mech Lore, but I have a feeling the pattern will bear out. :)

Looking at the armor spreadsheet (which is a fantastic resource!) it even looks like the increases in stealth hindrance come from LC switching to HC (steel chain to steel mail gloves for instance) and from LP to HP (such as steel lamellar to steel light plate tassets).

That is good info about 3.0 conversion, thanks! Speaking of the system broadly, I'm curious to see how stealth hindrance plays out with the consolidation into Chain and Light Armor skills. Bone/Leather/Cloth may have a simple material toggle. But presumably chain will have a weight tipping point between LC and HC values, or only one level of stealth hindrance, or some sort of gradient like "regular" hindrance does now.

<<Cop-out/obvious answer, but I'd wait for Crafting 3.0 leather/cloth/bone releases before making any significant moves.

Heh, I think this is probably right. Crafting 3.0 should produce leather greaves with the same stats as full-body leathers, and let bone and cloth surpass storebought values. This should provide an easy way to avoid the relatively large (mild - 6) stealth hindrance on chain greaves without sacrificing much protection.

PS - For any novice forgers, when I used the terrible pre-made steel ingots I got finely-crafted and outstanding balaclavas. I literally could not complete the reinforce and lightening steps on them though! Clearly product quality counts at low skill levels.

The reason I asked about it was the hindrances for the 3 density mail greaves is behaving a little differently from the other pieces I've seen.

For example, my 3 density lumium mail gloves have the same hindrances, trivial/insignificant, as my old forged 27 stone mail gloves. There's a smooth juncture there from the old system to the new. Lumium mail balaclava hindrances are slightly below or fairly equal to the old shard chain version, depending upon LC or HC. So again there's a good continuation.

But the lumium mail greaves have noticeably more hindrance than my old 18 stone LC chain greaves I forged long ago, even though both are 3 density:

---

The chain greaves are light chain.

The greaves look like they offer protection for the following areas:

right leg
left leg

You feel certain that some chain greaves appear to impose insignificant maneuvering hindrance and minor stealth hindrance, offering:
good protection and high damage absorption for puncture attacks.
moderate protection and high damage absorption for slice attacks.
good protection and high damage absorption for impact attacks.
moderate protection and very good damage absorption for fire attacks.
moderate protection and very good damage absorption for cold attacks.
low protection and very good damage absorption for electrical attacks.

If you were only wearing some chain greaves your maneuvering would be insignificantly hindered and your stealth would be minimally hindered.
But considering all the armor and shields you are wearing or carrying, you are currently insignificantly hindered and your stealth is insignificantly hindered.

You are certain that the chain greaves are appreciably susceptible to damage, and are in pristine condition.

The chain greaves are made with metal.
The chain greaves are quite supple.
You are certain that the chain greaves weighs exactly 18 stones.
You are certain that the chain greaves are worth exactly 75 kronars.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.

---

The mail greaves are heavy chain.

The greaves look like they offer protection for the following areas:

right leg
left leg

You feel certain that some lumium mail greaves appear to impose light maneuvering hindrance and fair stealth hindrance, offering:
good protection and very high damage absorption for puncture attacks.
good protection and very high damage absorption for slice attacks.
moderate protection and very high damage absorption for impact attacks.
moderate protection and very good damage absorption for fire attacks.
moderate protection and very good damage absorption for cold attacks.
fair protection and good damage absorption for electrical attacks.

If you were only wearing some lumium mail greaves your maneuvering would be minimally hindered and your stealth would be minimally hindered.
But considering all the armor and shields you are wearing or carrying, you are currently lightly hindered and your stealth is lightly hindered.

You are certain that the mail greaves are quite guarded against damage, and are in pristine condition.

The mail greaves are made with metal.
The mail greaves are quite supple.
You are certain that the mail greaves weighs exactly 54 stones.
You are certain that the mail greaves are worth exactly 283140 kronars.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.

---

You are certain that the mail greaves is a lot stronger than the chain greaves.
You are certain that the mail greaves is somewhat harder to maneuver with than the chain greaves.
You are certain that the mail greaves is about as resistant to fire and is about as absorptive of fire as the chain greaves.
You are certain that the mail greaves is about as resistant to cold and is about as absorptive of cold as the chain greaves.
You are certain that the mail greaves is a little more resistant to electricity and is a little less absorptive of electricity than the chain greaves.
You are certain that the mail greaves is about as resistant to puncture damage and is a little more absorptive of puncture damage than the chain greaves.
You are certain that the mail greaves is a little more resistant to slice damage and is a little more absorptive of slice damage than the chain greaves.
You are certain that the mail greaves is a little less resistant to impact damage and is a little more absorptive of impact damage than the chain greaves.
You are certain that the mail greaves weighs a lot more than the chain greaves.

---

Everything is a range, but there's a +2 difference on the comparison scale. That's noticeable jump from the old 3 density version.

If it's not a bug or oversight, as you say, then it looks like Kodius might have decided the hindrance for greaves was too low in the old system and decided to give it a bump in the new. If that's the case then I'll probably keep my old forged greaves as long as they stay as they are now. Trade a little defense for a little better hindrance.

Kaxis

---

"First rule of slaying: don't die!" -- Buffy

I'd argue that the differences in hindrances between LC and HC are a function of density, rather than the fact that a toggle is getting thrown between the two skill sets. Mostly anecdotal, but I might whip up something like pure gold gloves and compare them to steel. I do know that bronze is more hindering in something like lamellar armor (so no binary tag to throw) than steel in the same piece.

---

DR Armorcrafting 3.0:
http://tinyurl.com/drarmor3

DR Crafting Calc:
http://tinyurl.com/DRCraftCalc

Gonna have to eat some crow on this, but have confirmed the difference:


The chain hauberk is heavy chain.
You feel certain that a steel-alloy chain hauberk appears to impose high maneuvering hindrance (9/15) and significant stealth hindrance (10/15),
(400 stones on the nose)

The chain hauberk is light chain.
You feel certain that a steel-alloy chain hauberk appears to impose high maneuvering hindrance (9/15) and moderate stealth hindrance (7/15)
(about 360 stones)

Same piece, just lightened.

---

DR Armorcrafting 3.0:
http://tinyurl.com/drarmor3

DR Crafting Calc:
http://tinyurl.com/DRCraftCalc