I'm currently using Crossing LC, with Haven LC greaves and HC helm. What I'm wondering is, aside from forged LC (cuz I'm young and poor), where can I find better LC? Or am I good sticking with what I have now, and just saving up for the forged stuff?


Kalkashal

Thanks for the quick response. I see there's two sets of chain, are they both light, or is one heavy chain? And I don't suppose anyone has an appraisal of it?

whats some good starting Heavy Chain storebought is fine, Haven or Crossing preffered.


B D Buuwl

Thanks for the advice... now can I die chain in leth? Or do I have to go somewhere else?


B D Buuwl

My arms need some love. They keep getting damaged, and I need them in order to play instruments.

Currently I'm wearing...

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>app my lori


The chain lorica is light chain.

The lorica looks like it offers protection for the following areas:

chest
abdomen
back

You feel certain that a chain lorica appears to impose fair maneuvering hindrance and offers:
moderate protection and good damage absorption for puncture attacks.
good protection and good damage absorption for slice attacks.
low protection and good damage absorption for impact attacks.
moderate protection and moderate damage absorption for fire attacks.
moderate protection and moderate damage absorption for cold attacks.
poor protection and moderate damage absorption for electrical attacks.

If you were only maneuvering in a chain lorica you would be unhindered.
But considering all the armor and shields you are wearing or carrying, you are currently lightly hindered.

You are certain that the chain lorica is of average strength, and is rather scuffed up.

The chain lorica is made with metal.
The chain lorica is moderately flexible.
You are certain that the chain lorica weighs exactly 282 stones.
You are certain that the chain lorica is worth exactly 2164 dokoras.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.

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>app my armbands


The leather armbands are leather armor.

The armbands look like they offer protection for the following areas:

right arm
left arm

You feel certain that some soft tan leather armbands appear to impose light maneuvering hindrance and offers:
low protection and fair damage absorption for puncture attacks.
poor protection and fair damage absorption for slice attacks.
poor protection and fair damage absorption for impact attacks.
poor protection and fair damage absorption for fire attacks.
low protection and fair damage absorption for cold attacks.
fair protection and fair damage absorption for electrical attacks.

If you were only maneuvering in some soft tan leather armbands you would be unhindered.
But considering all the armor and shields you are wearing or carrying, you are currently lightly hindered.

You are certain that the leather armbands are of average strength, and are in pristine condition.

The leather armbands are fairly soft.
You are certain that the leather armbands weighs exactly 40 stones.
You are certain that the leather armbands are worth exactly 45 dokoras.
Roundtime: 8 seconds.

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I'm a stealth user, so I'm hoping to find something that's stealth friendly, but that still protects well. Does anyone have any suggestions?

__
~Leilond - Working up to Galren and Mazrian
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/leicollagefinal.jpg
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com/bard_planner_v2.xls

After using leather and then mixing armor for years, I finally went all-chain and haven't looked back. The additional protection is worth the extra hindrance, especially since my stealths are 100 over my weapons anyway.

Head and hands seem to be the parts most in need of protection because a lot of times, stuns result from people hitting you there. They also aren't the primary source of hindrance.

Chest/abdomen/back armor makes a huge difference in weight and hindrance, and you can take more damage there -- though you can be one-shot from a particularly nasty hit there later on, apparently.

I haven't gotten to that point yet.

Are the maneuvering hinderances a range? If so, I wonder what my current lorica's "fair" hinderance falls in the range, and if going up to a bottom-end "moderate" hinderance would make much of a difference.

__
~Leilond - Working up to Galren and Mazrian
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/leicollagefinal.jpg
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com/bard_planner_v2.xls

Leilond: You may want to take a pass through Crossing and buy some nice forged accessories. I think they will surpass anything you find with normal merchants and well worth the coin charged by the traders.

A bit self-serving, as I supply to traders in Crossing. Not trying to come across that way, but I think you will be well served with forged accessories, plus there are traders that sale other forger's stuff as well.

Madigan

True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.

Arthur Ashe

> Either I've been particularly lucky to have not received but one insta-kill in all of my hunting, or is it the fact that I'm wearing metal across my torso

That armor you're wearing is definitely not the reason you're surviving anything. I'll second Madigan's suggestion of heading to crossing to do some shopping. If you're attacked to the mask and altered gloves what I would suggest doing is finding some that would let you try a different pieces on and check how that affects your hindrance. Then go try to hide on a few thing that should be "at level" for you. You're welcome to look me up via the gweths I'll let you try on a few leather pieces I've got in my vaults.

This is one of those cases where we can give you generic advice, but nothing beats trying out a few combination to find the one that suits you best.

~Hanryu Ves'Shomis
Sword of House Calibanor, Ambassador of the Ilithi Court, Emerald Knight, Keeper of the CEC, ... still a Ranger
http://www.kynevon.info/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls

Unless you're a Ranger or someone who has trained their stealth to be considerably higher than their weapons, I would recommend one and only one route:

Full-body leathers with chain helm and hand protection.

This doesn't maximize LC or HC experience but the protection of some perfect firecat leathers puts to shame any coats or LC greaves you could find. If you're a Barbarian and are going to be training multi as well as stealths I honestly believe there's no other sensible option.

The stealth hindrance from chain gloves and helm is negligible (so you don't have to over-train your stealths every time you switch critters, which is what I do to do with chain greaves) and though the leathers cost nearly double they are often several categories better than a coat or chain greaves (example: high/high for slice instead of good/moderate).

Hope that helps.
*******
Prime: Malkien
Prime: (Necromancer Bob- coming to DR in '08!)
TF: Ganymede

>>Which Trader or non-Trader should I be looking for in Crossings in order to get outfitted with all of this, if you don't mind me asking?

If you're going to go with my suggested set-up (full leather body and chain head and hands) the only place you can find chain protection for the eyes is the armor shop in Riverhaven. Buy one of their visored helms.

Chain gloves are pretty standard, ask via gweth. The should only cost about 4-5p for capped ones.

If you have the bank for leathers you should look to pay around 50-80 p for them depending on the skin. I'd recommend gargoyles, azures, or firecats (my personal favorite). You can save a lot of money by buying superior ones instead of 'perfect' ones should the opportunity arise.

If you're looking for a leather coat instead they should run about 10-20p depending on the type (again). Dunno about chain greaves, I don't consider them worthwhile so I never looked into the market.
*******
Prime: Malkien
Prime: (Necromancer Bob- coming to DR in '08!)
TF: Ganymede

>>But honestly, I wish I knew the pluses and drawbacks of each route. Right now I'm pretty confused, because you swear by the full body leather/chain gloves set, HERALD42 swears by full chain altogether, and SAUVA had suggested a variety of mix/match combination sets.

Let me see if I can break this up for you.

Which guild is this? Bard?

1) All-chain. This is what I would actually recommend for a Ranger. This is how my de-activated Ranger is set up, and unless he's changed his perception this is also how Teeklin is set up. Between hiding primary and powerful stealth boosters you can easily work off the chain.

However, for a survival secondary (my Barbarian), I found the time investment needed to moderately over-train my stealths not worth the returns. With chain accessories I get the benefits of no hand stuns and more TDPs for rather negligible penalties to stealth and MO (multi-armor penalty). An all-chain set-up with stealth is still certainly doable, but be aware you'll need to spend some time over-training hiding.

I wouldn't really bother with this strategy as a survival tertiary. The penalty will be too high if you have any interest in hiding at all. You don't need any penalties when every other rank is a wall rank.

2) Leather/chain mix-up. This is attractive under a few circumstances. For one, it's cheaper. Additionally, the overall hindrance is going to be lower, so you can do this much easier at lower armor ranks (I'd say below 150 or so). Finally, splitting up the body will teach your armors more evenly. Honestly in the long-term the final advantage is the only one that would remain true. When you can afford more powerful armor and have trained down the hindrance I'm not sure what other advantages this would offer you, perhaps Hanryu can elaborate on this.

Keep in mind with option #3 (all leather body) your leather will lock very quickly and your chain will take a while to reach high mind states. This point is not quite as strong if you are armor tertiary, but it is worth considering. Also keep in mind the more chain you pile on the heavier your hiding penalty will be.

3) All-leather body,chain accessories. First the downside. This is the most expensive, easily double the other options (perfect tanned leathers are expensive). Secondly, it is the most hindering by quite a margin, though most guilds can train leather down almost all the way, so in the long-term this won't necessarily hold true. It will just take the longest to reach fruition.

With chain accessories you gain the benefit of chain (no easy stuns like with crappy leather gloves, and more TDPs) without any real penalties of which to speak. The one other thing to keep in mind is that this set-up really only allows a two-armor combo (leather and LC or HC). Committing yourself to leathers rewards you with much better protection than a coat but it lessens the potential to train 3 armors at once.

So basically, I swear by this set-up because I eventually opted for performance over short-term cost/ease of use and I didn't really care about the ability to train 3 armors instead of 2.

Hope that helps.
*******
Prime: Malkien
Prime: (Necromancer Bob- coming to DR in '08!)
TF: Ganymede

There's a large difference in tanned leathers by critter. I'd suggest taking a look at the following site for leather info: http://tanning.tribehawk.com/leathers.php

Firecats are what seem to be best all around if you're wanting low hindrance, and they're fair/fair/good with insignificant hindrance (compared to your good/mod/good insignificant). That chain you're looking at is pretty tops. I've seen good/good/mod and good/mod/good, so it's really just a trade-off of what you want your weakness to be (slice or impact, respectively).

I made the adjustment to all-chain for the same reason that was posted -- I play a survival primary with 100 more stealths than combats, and that gap just keeps getting bigger. The larger stealth penalty isn't going to make it so that things on level can see me -- it did under 100 LC ranks every once in a while, but those days are passed.

So, yes. If you have much more stealth than weapons, chain is better. If they're anywhere close, a leather/chain mix or all leather is better. And if you spend your fighting in the open, upgrade to chain. I used to have to hunt from hiding because of my low Stamina -- moving away from leather and picking up a shield has meant that I always have time to hide and hit the herbs with enough time to spare that I don't die if I'm prepared.

Thank you SAUVA, HERALD42, NEELD, and DIMINISHEDANGEL for all of the expert help. You don't even know how much I appreciate it, and how much of a difference you've made. I'm all suited up now, and am hoping these new armors hold out as well as I think and feel they will.

Again, thank you.

Now I just gotta get 'em altered to fit my new character theme. Too bad I'm not premium, otherwise it'd be easy. Ugh.

__
~Leilond - Working up to Galren and Mazrian
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/leicollagefinal.jpg
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com/bard_planner_v2.xls

>>That armor you're wearing is definitely not the reason you're surviving anything.

I'm going to go ahead and openly disagree with you on this one.

I need only look at myself and my fellow leather wearers who hunt what I hunt and then look at my friends in plate and chain and I begin to realize how much more often I'm open rolled resulting in death.

Frequently I'll see someone paste an open roll hit in IRC only to see them survive with a chest bleeder. I frequently die with ~80% vitality wearing leather chest /legs and HC helm and LC gloves.

That's not to say it doesn't happen to my HP/HC loving friends... I just noticed in the course of a week I'll die a few times more than them.

-Galren Moonskin

Tusfaov calmly says, "Excellent. The inner fire burns bright within your chest, Galren. You have achieved a new level of enlightenment."

!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.

<3 Taghz for dragging my dead corpse around

-Galren Moonskin

Tusfaov calmly says, "Excellent. The inner fire burns bright within your chest, Galren. You have achieved a new level of enlightenment."

!>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.

Agreeing with Galren and Taghz here.

You'll never save yourself from all open rolls, but heavier armor and stamina will allow you survive more of them.

- Mazrian

>If you ask me it has more to do with the absorption that some chain and plate can achieve rather than the protection.

Exactly. If I could use a LC hauberk and suffer no stealth penalties I'd be wearing it 100% of the time. Unfortunately it's significantly harder for me to hide and stalk the critters I hunt while wearing a significant amount of chain on my body. And this is with my stealths 25% higher than my highest weapon.

Currently I'm mixing leather and lc, hoping that in the future my hiding will be far enough ahead that I'll be able to switch to a LC hauberk and hunt normally. The difference between a LC hauberk and perfect reinforced leathers is really noticeable as far as protection.



-Rmel
________
The ladies would love it if I shape shifted into a bear while we were making sweet sweet love. That benefit alone would make shape shifting worth it.

-Mvorn

Just to put my two cents in, I was all leathers for the first 100 or so circles, and then jumped on the chain bandwagon. My Ranger currently wears azures with HC helm/gloves, and is sitting at insig hindrance (although no shield).
My Barb wears a combo as well, azures on the body with HC helm, LC gloves, and a tanned buckler. With 150-175 in each, he's sitting at insig as well.

Both train stealth heavily, so it's certainly no deterrent to stealth.

-Vision et al

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Also, I can shoot bees.