This whole thing started on the S'Kra Mur forum regarding getting us the claw bonus that we've been asking about for... over a decade? But Caraamon made a very solid point that it's unfair when races X, Y, and Z get a cool thing with mechanical advantages, and none of the others get something to balance. Let's face it, snapping is cool, just not that cool.

So I want to have a kinda brain-storming session here on the boards regarding how we can make the Brawling bonuses fair.

Currently, the following races get Brawling bonuses, and they do the following things: (taken from Elanthipedia)

Prydaen	Prydaen claws are much stronger than normal and do quite a bit of slice damage. They receive a damage bonus to the claw and gouge commands.
Rakash	Rakash in moonskin can bite without grappling and do a hefty amount of extra damage.
S'Kra	S'Kra Mur have sharp fangs, and while they lack the Rakash ability to bite without grappling, they do additional damage while grappling.

I feel like currently Prydaen are way ahead of the curve here, given that they have two attacks with bonuses and no restrictions, whereas Rakash have to be in Moonskin (which they usually aren't) to get their one bonus, and S'Kra Mur can only use their one bonus while grappled.

Yes, three Guilds also have brawling stuff, but it's not uncommon for some guilds to have things that others don't, while the intent has long been for the races to all be mechanically equal.

The various Brawling moves are as follows, also stolen from Epedia:

PUNCH	A straightforward attack using your fist.
CLAW	Rake the enemy with your fingertips (or claws, if you've got them).
GOUGE	Jab at the enemy with the fingertips.
SLAP	An open-handed attack with the palm. Dreadfully embarrassing.
ELBOW	Strike the enemy with your elbow, does not require a free hand.
KICK	Attack by kicking your foot at the enemy. Can be done with both hands full.
BITE	Bite at the enemy with your teeth.
BUTT	Headbutt the enemy. Always good for a laugh.
KNEE	Bring your knee up to hit an opponent.

Kinda limited. To broaden our options for who gets what kind of bonus, let's include Tactical moves:

BOB	regenerates fatigue
CIRCLE	increases position and debuffs enemy balance; no fatigue cost
WEAVE	temporarily debuffs an enemy's defense in exchange for a fairly high fatigue cost
GRAPPLE	enables certain brawling moves (like butt) and prevents some kinds of attacks. Also will prevent an opponent from standing if they are kneeling or prone. Using circle successfully while grappled will cause your opponent to lose balance. However, an unsuccessful circle can backfire and harm your balance.
SHOVE	can knock opponents to the ground or to pole range. Can also break a grapple

Off the top of my head I feel like Dwarves should get a BUTT bonus (anyone else love the Dwalin/Balin greeting in The Hobbit), and if we're keeping with the Rakash only get a bonus in Moonskin thing then I'd suggest TACKLE and CIRCLE as well as the existing BITE. I'd need more time to think of other ideas though... anyone else want to tag in?

I

> Halflings and gnomes should get a bonus to initiating grapple.

If anything, they should get extra bite damage on legs. More effective bobs. More fatiguing circles.

Elotheans.. devastating headbutt.. that freak of nature forehead needs to be used for something!



Humans.. well, yah... a mean pinch?.. thru all those years of only having finger snaps so they do it all the time should build up major finger strength.. maybe a mean gouge?


Olvi.. blow smoke ring in your eyes, (tho again could do something with theyre fingers for all those years having a death grip on tarts)

Considering Rakash bite can be only used in moonskin, and moonskin doesn't happen as often as some might think, I would hardly call it much of a bonus. It's neat and cool if you're in combat when you're in moonskin, but it's also not very common.

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Your time for being forced PvP OPEN has ended. You have been set back to DON'T MUCK WITH ME UNLESS YOU TELL ME FIRST! and will not be able to change it for 24 hours.
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> Considering Rakash bite can be only used in moonskin, and moonskin doesn't happen as often as some might think, I would hardly call it much of a bonus. It's neat and cool if you're in combat when you're in moonskin, but it's also not very common.

So long as you're not in combat when you change into moonskin. Does that still have the penalties it used to have?

>And the Prydaen bonuses are balanced by their unique birthing locations.

> deposit all

After an agonizing public labor process, a teller arrives, collects your kit, gags a little, and gingerly places it in the vault for safekeeping.

- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -

>> And the Prydaen bonuses are balanced by their unique birthing locations.

And the GM chimes in and sends the discussion thoroughly off-topic.

I

>And the GM chimes in and sends the discussion thoroughly off-topic.

Seems on topic to me. New racial penalty - Prydaen get a 3% higher exchange rate than every other race because cleanup costs.

- Starlear, Warrior Mage and Lieutenant of Ilithi's Crystal Vanguard -

Fairness is rather boring.

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>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.

>Prydaen + Birthing Bonus + Higher Deposit Fees

= Me laughing very hard.

>So long as you're not in combat when you change into moonskin. Does that still have the penalties it used to have?

Yes and no. It does still stun the Rakash, though not for nearly as long as it used to, and it no longer throws you to the floor like a college kid after too many jello shots. Also, now thanks to the "early warning system" it's possible to know when it will be happening so you can clear out of combat before any of that happens. It also allows you to tactfully leave a populated area so you don't get the crazy stares from some people and comments of, "You should really clean up all that fur you left laying around. It's gross."

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Your time for being forced PvP OPEN has ended. You have been set back to DON'T MUCK WITH ME UNLESS YOU TELL ME FIRST! and will not be able to change it for 24 hours.
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>>Fairness is rather boring.

>Well then, let's just give one race a bonus of 400 ranks in every skill and 200 in all stats.

That sounds rather boring, too. Maybe if that race exploded in sunlight or something.

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>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.

>> But I say that to say this, why not bonus racials?

I'm not opposed to racial bonuses period, I just would prefer it if all races were mechanically equal, which would mean that if three races get a brawl bonus, all races should get a brawl bonus. Or, alternately, none get it. Either way, it's fair.

I

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"[A]ll PC necromancers are now redeemed good guys..." ~ GM Raesh

There was some talk way back in the day about a normalized system of racial bonuses but development oomph never consolidate behind it. Mostly these things have been removed over the years, though, because there was no way for players to know about most of them.

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>Forgive my snark, but welcome to the life of a warrior mage.