does buffing INT and WIS affect learning rates?
What about if its a spell and is it different if its an item like the hand of glory with a ring?
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DISCOTEQ21
SHIFT3
Re: Buffing INTEL and WISDOM - learning rates
01/24/2017 05:26 PM CST
> does buffing INT and WIS affect learning rates?
Training a stat, yes, although it seems to taper out around 60 and I can't see much of a difference on skills > 300.
> What about if its a spell and is it different if its an item like the hand of glory with a ring?
Spells no. Rings, it seems, is also a no.
ASHAMAN1
Re: Buffing INTEL and WISDOM - learning rates
01/24/2017 05:37 PM CST
>>does buffing INT and WIS affect learning rates?
Learning rates are always based off of base mentals.
Samsaren
Learning rates are always based off of base mentals.
Samsaren
RY4NPW
Re: Buffing INTEL and WISDOM - learning rates
01/24/2017 10:44 PM CST
>>Learning rates are always based off of base mentals.
Untrue. Glythtide's Gift gives a measurable bonus to learning. However, the increase is pretty trivial (on the order of just a few percentage points increase).
Increasing your Wisdom by 10% results in a 1% increase in learning. This means you get significantly diminishing returns on additional wisdom.
If you have 100 Wisdom and boost it by 20% to 120, you get just a 2% increase in your learning.
If you have 10 Wisdom and boost it to 12, you also get a 2% increase to your learning.
Untrue. Glythtide's Gift gives a measurable bonus to learning. However, the increase is pretty trivial (on the order of just a few percentage points increase).
Increasing your Wisdom by 10% results in a 1% increase in learning. This means you get significantly diminishing returns on additional wisdom.
If you have 100 Wisdom and boost it by 20% to 120, you get just a 2% increase in your learning.
If you have 10 Wisdom and boost it to 12, you also get a 2% increase to your learning.
RY4NPW
Re: Buffing INTEL and WISDOM - learning rates
01/24/2017 10:59 PM CST
Let me add some numbers to back up my statement above. Note, only wisdom appears to measurably increase your rate of learning.
ASSUMPTION: "Bits" in a rank = rank + 200. In the case below, there are 792 bits needed to move from 592 to 593.
magic primary (Arcana), 57 wisdom, no RPA, no APP FOCUS.
before pulse: 592 32.18% nearly locked (33/34)
after pulse: 592 32.97% enthralled (32/34)
6.2568 bits gained (126 pulses to next rank)
magic primary (Arcana), 64 wisdom, no RPA, no APP FOCUS.
before pulse: 592 32.97% nearly locked (33/34)
after pulse: 592 33.77% enthralled (32/34)
6.336 bits gained (125 pulses to next rank)
Effectively, I got 1.266% learning increase with a 12.28% increase in wisdom.
ASSUMPTION: "Bits" in a rank = rank + 200. In the case below, there are 792 bits needed to move from 592 to 593.
magic primary (Arcana), 57 wisdom, no RPA, no APP FOCUS.
before pulse: 592 32.18% nearly locked (33/34)
after pulse: 592 32.97% enthralled (32/34)
6.2568 bits gained (126 pulses to next rank)
magic primary (Arcana), 64 wisdom, no RPA, no APP FOCUS.
before pulse: 592 32.97% nearly locked (33/34)
after pulse: 592 33.77% enthralled (32/34)
6.336 bits gained (125 pulses to next rank)
Effectively, I got 1.266% learning increase with a 12.28% increase in wisdom.
FROSC02
Re: Buffing INTEL and WISDOM - learning rates
01/24/2017 11:34 PM CST
Is there a measurable difference over a sustained period? Going from a pulse size of 0.79 to 0.80 over a single sample isn't necessarily indicative of anything; 0.01 variances in individual pulse sizes happen frequently, likely due to rounding since rank percentage only shows two decimal places.
ILLIENA
Re: Buffing INTEL and WISDOM - learning rates
01/24/2017 11:38 PM CST
> Is there a measurable difference over a sustained period? Going from a pulse size of 0.79 to 0.80 over a single sample isn't necessarily indicative of anything
Testing now.
Testing now.
RY4NPW
Re: Buffing INTEL and WISDOM - learning rates
01/25/2017 12:00 AM CST
>Is there a measurable difference over a sustained period?
It is suspicious given the tiny gain, but dropping to 50 wisdom reduced the pulse size to 0.78. I only included a single sample for the math, but have been testing with 2 characters for about a month.
The end result is being 8 minutes faster over 7 hours of drain time assuming a full 20% increase in wisdom (the most you can get from a buff). Is that really worth it? Probably not.
It is suspicious given the tiny gain, but dropping to 50 wisdom reduced the pulse size to 0.78. I only included a single sample for the math, but have been testing with 2 characters for about a month.
The end result is being 8 minutes faster over 7 hours of drain time assuming a full 20% increase in wisdom (the most you can get from a buff). Is that really worth it? Probably not.
ILLIENA
Re: Buffing INTEL and WISDOM - learning rates
01/25/2017 04:08 AM CST
Testing complete. I've found no evidence to support the thesis that Wisdom buffs affect learning rate.
Attunement kept locked over the duration of the test.
So that's 4.37% of a rank gained over 27 pulses.
This time 4.36% of a rank gained over 27 pulses. If it were really improving learning rate by 2%, we would expect ~4.45% of a rank gained.
Attunement kept locked over the duration of the test.
| Attunement | Pulse Number | Wisdom |
| 1740 63.07% | 0 | 100 |
| 1740 63.24% | 1 | 100 |
| 1740 63.40% | 2 | 100 |
| 1740 63.56% | 3 | 100 |
| 1740 63.72% | 4 | 100 |
| 1740 63.88% | 5 | 100 |
| 1740 64.04% | 6 | 100 |
| 1740 64.21% | 7 | 100 |
| 1740 64.37% | 8 | 100 |
| 1740 64.53% | 9 | 100 |
| 1740 64.69% | 10 | 100 |
| 1740 64.85% | 11 | 100 |
| 1740 65.01% | 12 | 100 |
| 1740 65.17% | 13 | 100 |
| 1740 65.34% | 14 | 100 |
| 1740 65.50% | 15 | 100 |
| 1740 65.66% | 16 | 100 |
| 1740 65.82% | 17 | 100 |
| 1740 65.98% | 18 | 100 |
| 1740 66.14% | 19 | 100 |
| 1740 66.30% | 20 | 100 |
| 1740 66.47% | 21 | 100 |
| 1740 66.63% | 22 | 100 |
| 1740 66.79% | 23 | 100 |
| 1740 66.95% | 24 | 100 |
| 1740 67.11% | 25 | 100 |
| 1740 67.27% | 26 | 100 |
| 1740 67.44% | 27 | 100 |
So that's 4.37% of a rank gained over 27 pulses.
| Attunement | Pulse Number | Wisdom |
| 1740 67.44% | 0 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 67.60% | 1 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 67.76% | 2 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 67.92% | 3 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 68.08% | 4 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 68.24% | 5 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 68.40% | 6 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 68.57% | 7 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 68.73% | 8 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 68.89% | 9 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 69.05% | 10 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 69.21% | 11 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 69.37% | 12 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 69.53% | 13 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 69.70% | 14 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 69.86% | 15 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 70.02% | 16 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 70.18% | 17 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 70.34% | 18 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 70.50% | 19 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 70.67% | 20 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 70.83% | 21 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 70.99% | 22 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 71.15% | 23 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 71.31% | 24 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 71.47% | 25 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 71.63% | 26 | 100 + 20 |
| 1740 71.80% | 27 | 100 + 20 |
This time 4.36% of a rank gained over 27 pulses. If it were really improving learning rate by 2%, we would expect ~4.45% of a rank gained.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Buffing INTEL and WISDOM - learning rates
01/25/2017 04:53 AM CST
Thanks for the testing. I'm not sure why this "buffing mentals increases learning rate" rumor remains when it's been debunked several times already. I vaguely recall at one point the GMs even flatly stating buffing mentals didn't work?
SEPED
Re: Buffing INTEL and WISDOM - learning rates
01/25/2017 09:11 AM CST
>I'm not sure why this "buffing mentals increases learning rate" rumor remains
I've tried to disabuse people of it, I'm assured that while it doesn't work for other wisdom buffs it does for GG (or insert other buff here).
RY4NPW
Re: Buffing INTEL and WISDOM - learning rates
01/25/2017 10:39 AM CST
There could be a few variables I didn't account for in my testing.
1. It could be I've been just on the cusp of moving from 0.80 to 0.79, where the 0.79 appears a very small fraction of the time.
2. It could be related to the fact I was wearing the hand gift from HE. The hand buff stacks on top GG or other buffs so it's counted differently. Whether or not that influences pulse size is unknown.
3. Pulse size have been related to other factors that were not controlled.
At best, 2% is barely worth the time.
1. It could be I've been just on the cusp of moving from 0.80 to 0.79, where the 0.79 appears a very small fraction of the time.
2. It could be related to the fact I was wearing the hand gift from HE. The hand buff stacks on top GG or other buffs so it's counted differently. Whether or not that influences pulse size is unknown.
3. Pulse size have been related to other factors that were not controlled.
At best, 2% is barely worth the time.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Buffing INTEL and WISDOM - learning rates
01/26/2017 12:11 AM CST
>At best, 2% is barely worth the time.
2% is absolutely worth the time when we're talking about afk scripting to 1000+ ranks.
2% is absolutely worth the time when we're talking about afk scripting to 1000+ ranks.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Buffing INTEL and WISDOM - learning rates
01/26/2017 07:33 AM CST
This is one of the arguments for why "xp drain" and "field xp bucket size" should be tied to circle, not mentals. While it would have been particularly detrimental to my mains advancement, as I ignored circling for long stretches of a time, it would strongly benefit more physical guilds, who no longer have to effectively maximize mentals stat allocation instead of the physicals that are more involved in their day to day ability use.
Shrug.
