I know it was said that a fix was not going to be put in because it would only be a couple of months until the rewrite.

That was last year. It might be time to put in a fix.


Dierik

You also see a plovik leaf, a burly snow goblin, a chipped marble mortar, a chipped marble mortar and a grimy marble pestle. Look out! The snow goblins are taking up alchemy.

Actually, no. I did not realize it took that long for a weapon prime to move their weapon skill. I was really comparing the learning rate to my other magic skills. It takes twice as long to move TM to mind locked than it does to move any of my other four magic skills to mind locked. I like to lock one skill and then just move on to something else. I would say it takes 1.5 to 2.0 hours to mind lock TM using critters that are good for 100 more ranks before the soft cap.


Dierik

You also see a plovik leaf, a burly snow goblin, a chipped marble mortar, a chipped marble mortar and a grimy marble pestle. Look out! The snow goblins are taking up alchemy.

Maybe I'm using the wrong critter. I'm hunting Ghoul Crows out on Aesry. They have a great gen rate. I just locked TM there and it took me 80 minutes. I'm a Moon Mage and have 205 in TM. I've tried the 3rd tier Snow Goblins with similar results. I prep, target, wait three seconds and cast bolt.


Dierik

You also see a plovik leaf, a burly snow goblin, a chipped marble mortar, a chipped marble mortar and a grimy marble pestle. Look out! The snow goblins are taking up alchemy.

It's sounds like you've almost maxed it out for those creatures. Try working it on the next creature up, something that teaches from say 170-250+ and see how that goes.

---

Necromancy brings out the Stupid in us all. -Armifer

"Is TM that much harder to learn than any other primary weapon? Training weapons on Hanryu (all secondary) can be like pulling teeth as is. It takes me on average 130 minutes to move 4 weapons from 0 to 25 in a constant critter stream at >250 ranks under the soft cap."

I can't answer that for sure honestly. I don't have a barb with even close to similar weapon scores. (or even one activated right now)

I do have access to a ranger of similar skill and her weapons are a breeze compared to serc's TM, though like you said, that's comping a secondary skill to a primary and I want to try and present my complaint without such iffy comparisons.

I really do think something is off and I'd prefer not to get myself ignored by bringing up things that won't scale against each other.

It's not even a matter of getting to locked. My TM rarely gets above 10/34 and almost never reaches 20/34. Locked isn't the goal I'm looking for (but wouldn't cry if I could get it).

I guess what I would like is to be able to train enough TM in combat that as long as I consistently train it my evasion, a secondary skill, has no hope of catching it.

That's not really a perfect wording, but it's the best I can come up with. That I'm training both, but a secondary skill is outpacing a primary.



-Serc

"We, the disenfranchised men and women of Elanthia do, by the publishing of this accord, cast off the oppressive yoke of all law and nations and choose for ourselves a path of loyalty unto ourselves"

The intention is that TM learns roughly at pace with a bow, assuming all else is equal.

Since TM has a very definitive relative measure for performance, I'm not comfortable doing major work on its experience calc until we're in the wake of the combat rewrite.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

Really, it sounds like TM learning is where it is suppose to be. Wait, you are learning other magic faster than TM? Hmmmmm, maybe magic learning needs to be looked at? Sounds like magic learning needs nerfing.

>>You must not train TM. When snap casting bolt and grazing targets teaches better than doing major damage with a higher teir spell, there's a problem.

He's just spreading his usual hate.

I for one would actually like to learn the skill reasonably by using the skill as intended by fully preparing and casting spells. I really don't enjoy having to spam cast spells at min-prep in order to learn with some semblance of efficiency.


__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com

>Really, it sounds like TM learning is where it is suppose to be. Wait, you are learning other magic faster than TM? Hmmmmm, maybe magic learning needs to be looked at? Sounds like magic learning needs nerfing.

Silly trader, we all know contract exp is too low.

---

>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.

>The intention is that TM learns roughly at pace with a bow, assuming all else is equal.

I use both bow and TM with only 7 ranks separating the skills. Agility and disc are equal. Hunting young gryphons, I can lock bow well before I an lock TM with one fully aimed snipe for each fully targeted shot with STRA.

My constraint on TM is mana. Harness exceeds TM by 90ish ranks, yet I have to pick the best mana room in the hunting area to be able to put enough mana into the spell to even do decent damage to the things. I could certainly cast the spell with more mana, but would run out of harness long before I locked the skill.

Spamming BOLT against a weaker opponent allows me to learn TM about at the same rate as bow. But doing it the "right" way, this is not possible.

-pete

>>Spamming BOLT against a weaker opponent allows me to learn TM about at the same rate as bow.

This was my experience.

The learning rate (at maximum) does not need to be fixed, though obviously the "optimal" way of training right now is silly. Dishing out damage should be the optimal way to learn.

---

Right now the Moon Mage place on the "combat pet totem pole" is the part that's sunk into the earth to lower the pole's center of gravity.
-Armifer de Dragonrealms

I've been sitting in south barricade celps spamming BOLT exclusively for 40 minutes straight now and have gotten to 24/34 as a magic secondary. Since they completely ignore Pyre, BOLT and STRA are my only options unless I can find a Fire Shard or Gar Zeng scroll. Unfortunately, I think I'm just going to have to forsake TM until then (or until Magic 3.0 gives bards a multishot TM spell [here's hoping!])

Just thought I'd chime in with my support for upping TM exp learning.


-=Issus=-

Spamming bolt at low prep wasn't working for me. Now, I don't exactly have super TM for the area I'm hunting in. That means snapping bolt at low prep whiffs, a lot. My experience has been that fully targeting footman's strike at higher mana teaches much better. Of course, this is also a tert skill for me so it's a different scenario.
After 21 minutes in dobeks, prepping FsT at 12, harnessing 5 twice (to conserve mana)while waiting for full target:
PM 363 21/34
Harness 373 26/34
TM 230 30/34

I don't have a bow skill trained to those ranks to test against. I do have an edged weapon in the same skill area. After 9 minutes in dobeks:

2HE 228 30/34

So, yes, it took twice as long to work a tert skill to the same mindstate as a secondary skill. I'm sure there are other things I haven't factored in, but that's it at a basic level.

To be honest, I never really considered 20 minutes to be an inordinate amount of time to spend on a skill, so this scenario doesn't really bother me. Forty minutes, over an hour....yeah, I'd be irritated, too.

~Kattena

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A gestalt draugen swipes a hooked leonine claw at Silus. The claw lands a solid hit that cuts deeply into his groin!

It doesn't take 20 seconds to fully target. In the time it takes to harness 5 two times (6 seconds) the target has fully completed. It's actually between 10-12 seconds from prep to cast.

~Kattena

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A gestalt draugen swipes a hooked leonine claw at Silus. The claw lands a solid hit that cuts deeply into his groin!

Yes, I was mixing up full prep time for non targetted spells with full target time, but you got the basic idea I was going for.

- Starlear -

only way I can work TM right is with Starlight Sphere and TKS working in unison.

_______________________
The Oracle states, "I have looked into that man's soul"
The Prior asks, "and....?"
The Oracle replies, "I pray for all of ours"