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BEVERAGEK

TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/05/2009 05:40 PM CDT

Ok, so the way I go about training TM isn't working anymore. This method includes performing Damaris' Lullaby(knocking everything unconscious) and spam snap casting Strange Arrows at minimum prep.

My question is, what is the most effective way to train this skill now?

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com

LUXORTH

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Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/05/2009 05:41 PM CDT

Dart said snap casting, you might need to move up the ladder

SMTHSAILN

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Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/05/2009 05:45 PM CDT

is the knocking them unconscious (debuffing them) taking away your experience?

-Stayn

JMF90

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Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/05/2009 05:51 PM CDT

>is the knocking them unconscious (debuffing them) taking away your experience?

Probably. Creatures cap WAY lower when you debuff them like this.

ASHBAUGHJ2

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Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/05/2009 05:59 PM CDT

Yeah, that kind of debuff is really gonna reduce xp from what I recall and have experienced. Madmen or a quick resolve (which leaves them conscious) might teach more for now. Asleep is a massive debuff compared to prone/stunned, etc... I believe.

- The Moose

JMF90

Email Author

Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/05/2009 06:04 PM CDT

Some things don't affect exp, some do.

Exp Reducers:
Immobilized
Unconscious
Webbed
Stat debuffs like Tezirah's Veil or Malediction.

Nonreducers:
Stunned (IMO the best strategy for training)
Prone

BEVERAGEK

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Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/05/2009 06:12 PM CDT

Hmm, sweet, thank you for the info--I'm gonna try madmen and see how that works. Or maybe Abandoned Heart...

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com

DAENAR-DR

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Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/05/2009 06:41 PM CDT

>> Hmm, sweet, thank you for the info--I'm gonna try madmen and see how that works. Or maybe Abandoned Heart...

Pyre + fireshard or fireball would work if you are into scrolls. Doesn't pyre also teach TM?

You could always over hunt using balm as well.

DAMIAN

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Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/06/2009 01:56 AM CDT

>>Some things don't affect exp, some do.

Exp Reducers:
Immobilized
Unconscious
Webbed
Stat debuffs like Tezirah's Veil or Malediction.

Nonreducers:
Stunned (IMO the best strategy for training)
Prone <<

I could be wrong but I think severe paralysis of the entire body also falls into the nonreducers and is a very nice way to bring a critter down a few ranks.

Damian, a voice from the distant and long-forgotten past.

PBOMBARD

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Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/06/2009 06:23 AM CDT

I've found that if you are back-training, but hunting up for my TM skill, using exp-reducing debuffs is not an issue. I still learned more that way.

So, if you are hunting over your range using debuffs, you may end up with a net positive gain in exp.

-pete

BEVERAGEK

Email Author

Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/06/2009 06:58 AM CDT

Chorus of Madmen and snap casting didn't work because of lack of serious damage. Desert's Maelstrom and snap casting didn't work for the same reason. Performing Phoenix's Pyre with four of them engaged at melee didn't work as it couldn't even hit them with 434 TM.

I will try Demrris' Resolve to see if that fixes things; however this is fairly disheartening that I can't just prepare TM spells like normal and cast them to learn well.

That is unless someone has any other learning techniques that they would like to share.

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com

DR-OOLAN

Email Author

Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/06/2009 07:01 AM CDT

I've always fully targeted my spells. Have you tried that yet? For strange arrow, fully targeting should get you more solid hits.

GM Oolan Jeel

"The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice."
- Richard Moore

JMF90

Email Author

Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/06/2009 08:07 AM CDT

>I could be wrong but I think severe paralysis of the entire body also falls into the nonreducers and is a very nice way to bring a critter down a few ranks.

You are correct. I also left off fatigue, another nonreducer.

LUXORTH

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Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/06/2009 08:30 AM CDT

>>I've always fully targeted my spells. Have you tried that yet? For strange arrow, fully targeting should get you more solid hits.

This is the way I normally train but in a recent conversation with Dart he said that the best way to train TM currently is to snap cast

JMF90

Email Author

Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/06/2009 08:33 AM CDT

>This is the way I normally train but in a recent conversation with Dart he said that the best way to train TM currently is to snap cast

It really depends on the situation. If you can't land snap casts, you're going to need some aim time.

LUXORTH

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Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/06/2009 08:38 AM CDT

>>It really depends on the situation. If you can't land snap casts, you're going to need some aim time.

Yeah I suppose I should have qualified snap as the least amount of time to get a decent hit.

DAENAR-DR

Email Author

Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/06/2009 06:08 PM CDT

>> It really depends on the situation. If you can't land snap casts, you're going to need some aim time.

It sounds like he is hitting them, but not doing any damage. Have you tried putting more mana into the spell? It won't be a true snap, but something like prep, target, harness 8, cast. This might work wonders for your damage. Especially with strange arrow.

LORD-RAHL

Email Author

Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/06/2009 06:21 PM CDT

Unless mana is a restriction, no reason to not roll the 8 mana harness into the base prep and instantly cast.

JMF90

Email Author

Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/06/2009 06:41 PM CDT

>Unless mana is a restriction, no reason to not roll the 8 mana harness into the base prep and instantly cast.

...except that target time will increase damage.

LORD-RAHL

Email Author

Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/06/2009 06:47 PM CDT

Well yes, I was assuming we were talking about a hit here. Which more mana won't help with if we're not I believe.

DAENAR-DR

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Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/06/2009 08:02 PM CDT

>> Well yes, I was assuming we were talking about a hit here. Which more mana won't help with if we're not I believe.

Yea, I wasn't referring to the additional target time. That was just a side bonus. I mostly mentioned harness because I really really doubt he can snap cast min+8 mana for very long. The harness would give him a few seconds of mana regen.

JMF90

Email Author

Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/06/2009 09:25 PM CDT

>Well yes, I was assuming we were talking about a hit here. Which more mana won't help with if we're not I believe.

More mana definitely helps both accuracy and damage, from my experience.

DR-OOLAN

Email Author

Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/06/2009 11:14 PM CDT

Mana can help accuracy if the cause of the innacuracy is at least in part MR. If the target is resisting the spell and that is the reason you can't hit then more mana can help to overcome this. Mana will also increase damage if you are hitting as will targeting for most spells. Increased damage will still increase experience so both are valid potential solutions.

GM Oolan Jeel

"The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice."
- Richard Moore

VMILLER4

Email Author

Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/07/2009 05:39 AM CDT

I may be wrong but just typing target <whatever> is going to drastically improve your accuracy at the cost of no wait time.

If youre still not hitting them after that I would move down to something you can hit without targetting.

I wouldnt be surprised at all if this changes when new combat is complete; but I've not messed with TM much in the past few years aside from backtraining a paladin.

~Maryhana

LUXORTH

Email Author

Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/07/2009 08:13 AM CDT

>>I wouldnt be surprised at all if this changes when new combat is complete; but I've not messed with TM much in the past few years aside from backtraining a paladin.

Dart said his ultimate goal is to add targeted time to the experience calculation

BEVERAGEK

Email Author

Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/07/2009 10:15 AM CDT

Right now I'm at prep stra, target, feint, draw, harness 8, slice, cast.

At least I'm able to get to 2/34 now.

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com

GRIM45

Email Author

Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/07/2009 10:19 AM CDT

Find something you can hit with snap casts.

Use this Macro:

\xprep bolt\rtarg\rcast\r

TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.

TAGHZ

Email Author

Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/07/2009 10:24 AM CDT

With 383 TM

I do

CAST:
put prep STRA 12
wait 1 sec
put target peccary
wait 1 sec
put cast
wait 1 sec
GOTO CAST

The prep amount should be the least amount of prep you can hit the creature everytime on the snap cast.

Crusader Taghz

DFA = DISC + AGIL + TM > Evasion + Reflex

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...for he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother...", William Shakespeare.

JMF90

Email Author

Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/07/2009 01:11 PM CDT

>The prep amount should be the least amount of prep you can hit the creature everytime on the snap cast.

I would say the prep amount should be the most you can cast at without draining attunement.

I'm a big fan of prep/target/harness/harness/cast at low levels. The RT is exactly equal to the time required for full target (6 seconds).

GRIM45

Email Author

Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/07/2009 01:18 PM CDT

>>he RT is exactly equal to the time required for full target (6 seconds).

But more than the time it takes to prep/target/cast. In the time you can do that, I can cast 6 times. With the current way EXP is calculated, it seems it's better to hit (even if you do ZERO damage) and hit 6-7 times in a second, than it is to kill something in 1-2 hits of full target. I know it's planning on being changed, but right now....

TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.

JMF90

Email Author

Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/07/2009 01:21 PM CDT

>But more than the time it takes to prep/target/cast. In the time you can do that, I can cast 6 times. With the current way EXP is calculated, it seems it's better to hit (even if you do ZERO damage) and hit 6-7 times in a second, than it is to kill something in 1-2 hits of full target. I know it's planning on being changed, but right now....

Right, obviously it depends on your circumstances. I use different methods depending on what I'm hunting. Generally, if there's heavy armor or a shield involved, snap casts are going to be weak for damage (although possibly ok for exp).

SHYGOAT

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Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/07/2009 03:08 PM CDT

>I'm a big fan of prep/target/harness/harness/cast at low levels. The RT is exactly equal to the time required for full target (6 seconds).

This is pretty much what I'm doing in celpeze with my relatively low TM ranks (369). Prep stra 5, harness 5 three times, cast. And that's after I've immobilized them with Demrris' Resolve; hopefully I can cut out that last part soon so I can stop paying the exp taxman.

Aveda's Field Guide- http://dr.aveda.googlepages.com

PBOMBARD

Email Author

Re: TM Learning Strategy - Help Please 08/07/2009 03:38 PM CDT

>This is pretty much what I'm doing in celpeze with my relatively low TM ranks (369). Prep stra 5, harness 5 three times, cast. And that's after I've immobilized them with Demrris' Resolve; hopefully I can cut out that last part soon so I can stop paying the exp taxman.

I'll have to give this approach a try. This could come in handy when trying to bridge a skill gap.

-pete

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