Okay, after reading the previous post so we all are on the same page...

We don't actually need to even share skills or stats, just our 'Origami Factors' if you will:

There are two different measures, your Study Factor (SF) which is INT*5 + Scholarship. And your Fold Factor (FF) which is AGI*2 + Mechanical Lore.

My SF is a beastly 1434
My FF is a mere 695

First off, all of the new patterns are below my SF (as predicted by the forthcoming table. We'll need some extra data points to confirm the first fold numbers in Prime.

Now from my own testing I found that with a FF of 691 the gilded goshawk instructions read at "Pretty Sure". At 693 they also read as "Pretty Sure". At 695 they read as "Eyes Closed".

This fits nicely with the table that follows. As you can see, I just extrapolated Apu's original table and threw in the new instructions (above goshawk) according to their purchase price at the festival.

What we need are some data points in the large ? section and to see if some of the new instructions fall into some of these other rows, which I highly suspect.

Ye Olde Origami Table:

Instruction	Pattern #	1st Fold (SF)	No bets (FF)	Sticky (FF)	Probably (FF)	Pretty Sure (FF)	Eyes Closed (FF)
Dragon	1	51	0	15	30	40	45
Hat	2	76	25	40	55	65	70
Bird	3	101	50	65	80	90	95
Star	4	126	75	90	105	115	120
Goblin	5	151	100	115	130	140	145
Flower	6	176	125	140	155	165	170
Jackal	7	201	150	165	180	190	195
Fish	8	226	175	190	205	215	220
Dolphin	9	251	200	215	230	240	245
Ship	10	276	225	240	255	265	270
Silverfish	11	301	250	265	280	290	295
Medallion	12	326	275	290	305	315	320
Gryphon	13	351	300	315	330	340	345
Cat	14	376	325	340	355	365	370
Horse	15	401	350	365	380	390	395
Mask	16	426	375	390	405	415	420
Phoenix	17	451	400	415	430	440	445
Mouse	18	476	425	440	455	465	470
Yak	19	501	450	465	480	490	495
Raven	20	526	475	490	505	515	520
Crown	21	551	500	515	530	540	545
Vulture	22	576	525	540	555	565	570
?	23	601	550	565	580	590	595
?	24	626	575	590	605	615	620
?	25	651	600	615	630	640	645
?	26	676	625	640	655	665	670
G. Goshawk	27	701	650	665	680	690	695
*Viper	28	726	675	690	705	715	720
*Butterfly	29	751	700	715	730	740	745
*T. Knot	30	776	725	740	755	765	770
Donkey	31	801	750	765	780	790	795
G. Vulture	32	826	775	790	805	815	820
Unicorn	33	851	800	815	830	840	845
Lion	34	876	825	840	855	865	870
G. Owl	35	901	850	865	880	890	895
Mongoose	36	926	875	890	905	915	920
Raccoon	37	951	900	915	930	940	945
Centaur	38	976	925	940	955	965	970
Cobra	39	1001	950	965	980	990	995
Welkin	40	1026	975	990	1005	1015	1020
Scorpion	41	1051	1000	1015	1030	1040	1045
B. Spider	42	1076	1025	1040	1055	1065	1070
G. Phoenix	43	1101	1050	1065	1080	1090	1095

* These three instructions all cost the same at the festival. I'm guessing they are all the same in terms of difficulty, but it didn't fit nicely in my pretty chart.

Use the previous post to find your SF and FFs. Find a pattern and READ it.

Feel free to add your data points to the chart and repost it if you are comfortable adding things in. Spacing isn't essential, I cheated with text editing software.

Thanks!
GENT

Hrm. With 1119 you should be able to do the first fold on all of them. Double check your numbers? It should be INT * 5 + Scholarship. Could you please post the exact messaging you get for these patterns?

As for the FF numbers. I've revised the chart to put viper, knot and butterfly all on the same tier. This clears a few things up. Not sure what's going on with g. vulture though - it could be up a step?

Thanks for the data!

Revised table below:

Instruction	Pattern #	1st Fold	No bets	Sticky	Probably	Pretty Sure	Eyes Closed
Dragon	1	51	0	15	30	40	45
Hat	2	76	25	40	55	65	70
Bird	3	101	50	65	80	90	95
Star	4	126	75	90	105	115	120
Goblin	5	151	100	115	130	140	145
Flower	6	176	125	140	155	165	170
Jackal	7	201	150	165	180	190	195
Fish	8	226	175	190	205	215	220
Dolphin	9	251	200	215	230	240	245
Ship	10	276	225	240	255	265	270
Silverfish	11	301	250	265	280	290	295
Medallion	12	326	275	290	305	315	320
Gryphon	13	351	300	315	330	340	345
Cat	14	376	325	340	355	365	370
Horse	15	401	350	365	380	390	395
Mask	16	426	375	390	405	415	420
Phoenix	17	451	400	415	430	440	445
Mouse	18	476	425	440	455	465	470
Yak	19	501	450	465	480	490	495
Raven	20	526	475	490	505	515	520
Crown	21	551	500	515	530	540	545
Vulture	22	576	525	540	555	565	570
?	23	601	550	565	580	590	595
?	24	626	575	590	605	615	620
?	25	651	600	615	630	640	645
?	26	676	625	640	655	665	670
G. Goshawk	27	701	650	665	680	690	695
Vip/Kno/But	28	726	675	690	705	715	720
Donkey	29	751	700	715	730	740	745
G. Vulture?	30	776	725	740	755	765	770
Unicorn	31	801	750	765	780	790	795
Lion	32	826	775	790	805	815	820
G. Owl	33	851	800	815	830	840	845
Mongoose	34	876	825	840	855	865	870
Raccoon	35	901	850	865	880	890	895
Centaur	36	926	875	890	905	915	920
Cobra	37	951	900	915	930	940	945
Welkin	38	976	925	940	955	965	970
Scorpion	39	1001	950	965	980	990	995
B. Spider	40	1026	975	990	1005	1015	1020
G. Phoenix	41	1051	1000	1015	1030	1040	1045

Interesting, thanks again for the data.

Please let me know if your SF or FF scores change and if you notice any difference in the READ.

I appreciate it,
GENT

SF - 898

Lion:
You read through the lion instructions and your eyes nearly cross. There are folds you've never heard of here, and you get a strong impression that trying this would be a waste of origami paper. You think it fairly obvious where the first fold would go.

G. Owl:
You read through the owl instructions and your eyes nearly cross. There are folds you've never heard of here, and you get a strong impression that trying this would be a waste of origami paper. Now if only you could figure out where to place the first fold.

Mongoose:
You read through the mongoose instructions and your eyes nearly cross. There are folds you've never heard of here, and you get a strong impression that trying this would be a waste of origami paper. You think it fairly obvious where the first fold would go.

Raccoon:
You read through the raccoon instructions and your eyes nearly cross. There are folds you've never heard of here, and you get a strong impression that trying this would be a waste of origami paper. Now if only you could figure out where to place the first fold.

Gilded Owl is harder than you have it on your chart.

FF - 527

Wolverine:
You read through the wolverine instructions, visualizing the folds in your mind as you go. There are several places where things might get a little sticky; you think you just might be able to do this, but then again you might not. You think it fairly obvious where the first fold would go.
Roundtime: 3 seconds.

All the rest of the new ones are eyes closed or waste of paper. I could give you a list of each but I don't think it would help much.

~ Sage Kougen Aensworth, Magus of the Compact

Ruea says in Ilithic, "At least you're very handsome. That makes the fact that you're always right far easier to live with"

Whats SF and FF mean?

I am trying to figure out what it takes to fold these new patterns and can't.

Drevid

---

http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Barbarian.html

Cylons... why debugging matters.

What Mozzik said.

I thought it would be easier to get data from people if we just used these numbers rather than having to share your stats and skills.

I'm trying to compile more data to place all these new instructions in the chart that I've been posting here periodically. I arbitrarily assigned spots for some of the new instructions and am trying to verify things with data from you guys in Prime.

If you have the new instructions and want to contribute, please feel free to post your SF and FF here as well as your success/failures with various instructions. Showing me the whole message helps a lot so that we are using the same vocabulary.

Thanks!
GENT

FF - 346

G. Heron - eyes crossed
Trillium Flower - eyes closed
Gryhpon - eyes closed
Cat - sticky

Thanks Madas, I just confirmed that one myself today!

Keep any data coming, especially for the lower FFs and instructions from the Festival.

There are still some kinks to work out for placement, and I need more data!

GENT

>So what does one have to do to learn mechanical lore after origami doesn't teach anymore (post 600?)

Pyramids still work during the day. You could try various creation systems. Lockpick carving might still teach. Moon mages can carve burins. Skip forging though.

>Have you tried some of the new instructions from the recent festival? I vaguely recall reading that these scale up past 1000 ranks.

Also a good point. I know I failed horribly on a few patterns at 505 mech and 88 agility.

maybe scquire one of the ones that do teach past? the past fest had atleast a dozen that were harder than the standard vulture

Updated table below.

I have personally confirmed Goshawk through Unicorn. I'm unable to confirm any of the 1st Fold numbers as I'm already past Gilded Phoenix level.

If anyone can confirm any of the new patterns not on the list, that would be great. All you need to confirm is your FF (Agility x 2 plus ML ranks) before and after you pass a 'milestone' and copy/paste the messaging from the game.

There are a few anomalies that I've gotten with data presented earlier, but I need more numbers to correctly place things.

Thanks!
GENT

Instruction	#	1st Fold	No Bets	Sticky	Probably	Pretty Sure	Eyes Closed
Dragon	1	51	0	15	30	40	45
Hat	2	76	25	40	55	65	70
Bird	3	101	50	65	80	90	95
Star	4	126	75	90	105	115	120
Goblin	5	151	100	115	130	140	145
Flower	6	176	125	140	155	165	170
Jackal	7	201	150	165	180	190	195
Fish	8	226	175	190	205	215	220
Dolphin	9	251	200	215	230	240	245
Ship	10	276	225	240	255	265	270
Silverfish	11	301	250	265	280	290	295
Medallion	12	326	275	290	305	315	320
Gryphon	13	351	300	315	330	340	345
Cat	14	376	325	340	355	365	370
Horse	15	401	350	365	380	390	395
Mask	16	426	375	390	405	415	420
Phoenix	17	451	400	415	430	440	445
Mouse	18	476	425	440	455	465	470
Yak	19	501	450	465	480	490	495
Raven	20	526	475	490	505	515	520
Crown	21	551	500	515	530	540	545
Vulture	22	576	525	540	555	565	570
?	23	601	550	565	580	590	595
?	24	626	575	590	605	615	620
?	25	651	600	615	630	640	645
?	26	676	625	640	655	665	670
G. Goshawk	27	701	650	665	680	690	695
Vip/Kno/But	28	726	675	690	705	715	720
Donkey	29	751	700	715	730	740	745
?	30	776	725	740	755	765	770
G. Vulture	31	801	750	765	780	790	795
Unicorn	32	826	775	790	805	815	820
Lion	33	851	800	815	830	840	845
G. Owl	34	876	825	840	855	865	870
Mongoose	35	901	850	865	880	890	895
Raccoon	36	926	875	890	905	915	920
Centaur	37	951	900	915	930	940	945
Cobra	38	976	925	940	955	965	970
Welkin	39	1001	950	965	980	990	995
Scorpion	40	1026	975	990	1005	1015	1020
B. Spider	41	1051	1000	1015	1030	1040	1045
G. Phoenix	42	1076	1025	1040	1055	1065	1070

Thanks for the data!

If you get the chance to recheck when your FF hits 240, that would be helpful.

The difficulties change on multiples of 5, so the more before/after data I get, the better!

Thanks
GENT

>If you get the chance to recheck when your FF hits 240, that would be helpful.

At 240 FF:

Dolphin, boar and coyote all became "pretty sure".

Panther became "probably".

Ship became "sticky".

Magpie is still a waste.

Note the calculator link ON the page.

---

-TG, TG, & GL, et al.

>>I assume it means First Fold or Folding Factor, but I don't know. I know that my INT+(2*Scholarship) is 631. I know that my AGI+(2*MECH) is 398. Which one of these numbers is the FF? The only term I'm familiar with is AOS (Apu Origami Scale).

Wow.

First Fold is based off of Scholarship (unmodified) plus Intelligence times 5 (five), not the other way around.

Additional folds are based off of Mechanical Lore (unmodified) plus Aglity times 2 (two), not the other way around.

Back from the fog....

Thank you for finding this post, I knew it had been posted somewhere, but did not check this folder for some reason. I thought it was in the general lore folder.

As I said, I wasn't sure of the calculations, so yes, I'm sure I got them wrong. I tried.

But, Thank you for your kindness in finding this for me.

I appreciate it. I hope you have a happy new year. I'll be putting this information on Elanthipedia so it's archived.


__
Join us in sharing information!
http://community.livejournal.com/drbookoftales/

Thank you so much Azhag, if you think to check this every 5 points of FF, I would really appreciate it - you are right in the range that I need!

The Panther info confuses me however. Can you try reading the instructions multiple times to confirm that you are getting an accurate reading? The numbers you give here do not fit into the regular chart, which means there could be a lot more work to do!

Also, I will update the Origami page on Elanthipedia with more information once I get more data (HINTHINT). I really need numbers in the 300-500 FF range.

Appreciate it,
GENT

>The Panther info confuses me however. Can you try reading the instructions multiple times to confirm that you are getting an accurate reading? The numbers you give here do not fit into the regular chart, which means there could be a lot more work to do!

It surprised me too. I have nearly 400 in appraisal so I've never seen a read be off, and I did read multiple times both before and after because I noticed it seemed "wrong" that it fit in between patterns.

I checked some of the really low patterns as well with a circle 8 Moon Mage. The ranks to get "no bets" for the Gilded Wren is exactly 0, while Gilded Shrike, Shrew, and Adder are all somewhere between 41 and 90 ranks to get "no bets", and the Weasel is somewhere over 90.