Horses need a brand new system from the ground up (this is planned). This will hopefully fix all the bugs and the whole "your horse does not follow you down this piece of road" mess.

The new horse system needs to interface strongly with animal lore.

Someone with 0 animal lore should not be able to just up and ride like a pro.

You should never catch a "wild" gelding. EVER. Seriously.

Horse gear needs to not disappear all the time. I only use a crappy bridle 90% of the time because if you so much as sneeze with a horse out it's going to loose all it's tack.

Group mechanics could use a thorough reworking.
Better group mechanics would lead to special paladin LEADs designed to use formations, made possible by better group mechanics.

War horses open to all. Paladins would have some innate bonus/advantage. Animal lore should be the governing skill in how well you can train your horse to kill. The horse should have exp also. Don't ask me how to balance this. Don't ask me how to implement this. I just don't want to see a brand new horse kickin' malchata around.

Horses need to die.

Empaths need to be able to heal horses.

Horse armor needs to mean something.


~Hanryu Ves'Shomis
Sword of House Calibanor, Ambassador of the Ilithi Court, Emerald Knight, Keeper of the CEC, ... still a Ranger
http://www.kynevon.info/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls

>I have to argue that Longbow not be usuable on horseback except for a specific longbow designed to do so.

Not to mention one heck of a penalty for riding while shooting, reflected by the years of training needed to successfully pull off a good shot while bouncing horribly. LX should be the cavalryman's ranged weapon of choice, just as it was in real life, as HX involves not carrying a shield or being able to successfully manipulate the reigns.

>or being able to successfully manipulate the reigns.

A good rider on a trained horse has no need for reigns.

~Hanryu Ves'Shomis
Sword of House Calibanor, Ambassador of the Ilithi Court, Emerald Knight, Keeper of the CEC, ... still a Ranger
http://www.kynevon.info/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls

True, a skilled archer can excel on horseback without need to check the reigns, and with a composite bow. However, the crossbow eliminated the need for much of that skill.

The Mongols excelled with bows for the simple reason that they were expert riders and archers, and they spent their attacks firing volley after volley while dodging out of range using hit-and-run tactics, using their mobility to make sure they outranged and outflanked the enemy. The sheer volume that the Mongols could put out while moving outweighed the advantage of the crossbow, which took much longer to load but was easier to aim and fire accurately from horseback.

The Mongols also opened fire at around 400m by using indirect and mass fire situations. Once they closed to around 100m, they started using direct, targeted shots (which is what attacks in DR represent), often against formations already broken by their volleys or chasing their feigned retreat.

If it came down to one shot from one person of average training, an already loaded crossbow would take the day simply because it's easier to aim on horseback, unless there's a huge difference in skill involved.

Light Crossbow should take the least amount of training to be effective on horseback. From there, HX would require riding training to steer with your legs, and composite bows would need further training to be able to load and aim. Finally, stick bows need all of that training plus a bit of additional knowledge of how to work with a larger and less powerful bow (or a less powerful bow that's the same size). My argument for LX is not based on what is the most effective at the high-end, but rather what is hindered the least by basic non-expert horseback riding. Past LX, there should be penalties that are reduced and then eliminated by animal lore, much like armor hindrance.

I'm not disputing the advantage of volume of fire in the least. I've seen what can be done with it, and it's amazing -- especially when you consider that forty or fifty people are all firing at once, in the sky, and not caring whether they hit individual targets because there will be so many arrows that death will rain from the skies like a relentless hailstorm from Urrem'tier's gaze.

All I'm saying that it's a whole heck of a lot easier to point and click once when you're on a horse, rather than try to steer with your knees, load, manage to lead the target at the proper distance, and get any semblance of proper aim consistently while the horse is at a full gallop without even having to slow down. Once you get to that point of expertise (I'd say a minimum of something like 300 ranks in DR-logic), stick bows win when you're comparing them to someone who is specifically using a light crossbow because it's easier (with much less than 300 ranks). Of course, with those same ranks, a light crossbow user might have the biggest shield you've ever seen to defend against your volleys.

It all matters whether you'd rather have the ability to ride and fire easier and have a lot more protection and control over the horse at equal ranks, or be able to train so that you could be an offensive (but much more lightly protected) juggernaut.

>Loading a stick bow on horseback is a heck of a lot easier then drawing the crossbows string to the catch and then sliding a bolt in. Crossbows have a much higher draw weight than stick bows.

The things that should make a light crossbow easier to use on horseback:
1) You have a hand free. That means you don't need to be the expert in horseback riding to control your horse with your legs.
2) You don't have to worry about lining up the arrow perfectly. Each part of the crossbow's loading mechanism means that you really don't need as much training to load. You have a lever pulling back the string, and usually some sort of crank or other mechanism to make the draw weight easier. All you have to worry about in loading a crossbow is getting the bolt into the groove and hanging on to the blasted thing while your horse is bouncing all over the place.
3) You don't have to use both hands to hold back the string when aiming. Any quick jarring action (such as riding a galloping horse) is going to increase the chance of a misfire with a stick bow, and compensating for that in turn makes it more difficult to aim.

I'm in no way suggesting that crossbow should be a better horseback weapon than a stick bow at high enough ranks to be unhindered, but I am suggesting that a crossbow user would have to learn less about a) riding a horse and b) firing to be unhindered by the action of shooting and riding. It takes extra training to be able to steer with your knees, and extra concentration and control to make sure you don't misfire something when you yourself are pulling back thirty pounds of draw while aiming, all the while trying to ride a war steed charging at the enemy formation.

Bringing them back up -- The Mongols in the example (whether yours or another) were both experts at archery and riding on horseback, which is why they were one of the few armies in history to have an entirely mounted force that primarily used ranged weaponry. They trained much more extensively than the English longbowmen, who likely could not make as many difficult shots as the Mongols. The discrepancy in comparing the Mongols to the western knights is primarily in skill -- few knights could compare to a Mongol in horseback riding. The cavalry's crossbow was meant to negate much of that difficulty of firing while on horseback, so that you didn't have to be both an expert at riding and an expert at archery.

I'm not debating damage potential of a weapon -- I'm debating the initial skill needed to use the weapon without any sort of penalty while on a horse riding at a full gallop. For example, a stick bow user might be unhindered at 300 ranks of animal lore, where a LX user might be unhindered at 150 or 200, and HX might be unhindered at somewhere in between. Of course, this is just an example. All I know is, I'd like to see it as a function of a skill, rather than a "trick" taught to a horse.

That'd be fine, too.

Someone else brought up a horse combat revamp, and specifically mentioned archery. I got all excited because that might mean that for once, the crossbows don't get the shaft because they can be used with a lot less skill in horseback riding.

Honestly, I don't see it as "let's penalize people." I see it as, "you know, this could be awesome for the people who want to do it and put in the time and effort to learn."

There's mention of a need for a horse rewrite, and I'm assuming the suggestion involved further detail for horseback combat that would make it favorable to dismounting and fighting it out. You could keep kiting a creature by firing at it and fleeing to the next room for it to follow, or use your horse to stay at Missile range with no extra roundtime (as a way of using Hangback that, you know, works). It'd have to be a huge advantage over what we have now.

We could make it a bonus, but then certain people would feel offended that their weapon of choice isn't bonused as much as someone else's. I merely suggested having Animal Lore working off what would be functionally similar armor hindrance because it's a familiar concept. Not a huge penalty that impedes function, but rather making it so that horseback combat has somewhere to go with more Animal Lore skill. If you have a different suggestion, feel free to make it.