Previous
>and GM guy ya didnt listen to my statement i said yes its TM SPELL
it is not a TARGETED spell it may be defined as a target spell cause of its mechanics but it doesnt require targetting for full power, the lack of targetting makes it a non targetting spell, like a bow that doesnt have to aim to achieve max power would not be an aim bow if it used bow skill<
If you aren't even going to listen to the GM in charge of the Magic system, then you need to stop posting. Maybe you should do us and you a favor and stop posting. You would have less stress in your life, we wouldn't have to read your post's, it's win-win for all.
Sabashtin..
[Rumet] "Aedem what was that I told you earlier?"
[Aedem] "That your mother misses me?"
MONTY1
MORS-INCARNATUS
Re: new cl Vadrik
03/09/2005 07:21 AM CST
<<it is not a TARGETED spell it may be defined as a target spell cause of its mechanics but it doesnt require targetting for full power,>>
You have it backwards.
It isn't targeted, therefor it never reaches the full power/accuracy that targeting would provide. :)
You have it backwards.
It isn't targeted, therefor it never reaches the full power/accuracy that targeting would provide. :)
TUCKERH
Re: new cl Vadrik
03/09/2005 11:59 AM CST
Just hit the ignore author button on the left. Since I did, my message boards are alot less arguementative, in every single folder.
The new CL rocks.
The new CL rocks.
DRAGOONSEAL
Re: new cl Vadrik
03/09/2005 02:29 PM CST
Hm, this thread brought up some interesting questions for me.
Since CL is now apparently a "Targeted spell in every sense of the word," does it.. have a targeted matrix? If it does, how does a targeted matrix work with against multiple entities? Does it have multiple targeted matrices? If multiple extremely high circle Barbarians where in the room would the spell still be able to be cast despite the massive room MR, but would totally miss everything because the targeted matrix/matrices were ripped to nothing?
It also occurred to me, it's a full TM spell, but yet it does not have to be targeted (just prep, cast) correct? And despite not aiming, why is it still as accurate as it is? How accurate are the bolts compared to an unaimed (just prep, cast) cast of Lightning Bolt? With the recent changes was added the option to target something/someone so the first bolt will be directed at them, but does this actually make the bolt more accurate ala aiming or simply direct it to a specific person instead of being random?
Mein inquiring mind wishes to know.
Dragoonseal
Since CL is now apparently a "Targeted spell in every sense of the word," does it.. have a targeted matrix? If it does, how does a targeted matrix work with against multiple entities? Does it have multiple targeted matrices? If multiple extremely high circle Barbarians where in the room would the spell still be able to be cast despite the massive room MR, but would totally miss everything because the targeted matrix/matrices were ripped to nothing?
It also occurred to me, it's a full TM spell, but yet it does not have to be targeted (just prep, cast) correct? And despite not aiming, why is it still as accurate as it is? How accurate are the bolts compared to an unaimed (just prep, cast) cast of Lightning Bolt? With the recent changes was added the option to target something/someone so the first bolt will be directed at them, but does this actually make the bolt more accurate ala aiming or simply direct it to a specific person instead of being random?
Mein inquiring mind wishes to know.
Dragoonseal
OLESH
Re: new cl Vadrik
03/09/2005 03:06 PM CST
Let's save some time. Just go back into the archives and look for the LAST time you brought this up. Everything said then still applies, including (apparently) your disregard of GM statements.
Orpheus: "You've been powering this machine with a forsaken child?"
Venture: "What? It's not like I used the whole thing."
Orpheus: "You've been powering this machine with a forsaken child?"
Venture: "What? It's not like I used the whole thing."
BELIELZ
Re: new cl Vadrik
03/09/2005 03:10 PM CST
<<Since CL is now apparently a "Targeted spell in every sense of the word," does it.. have a targeted matrix? If it does, how does a targeted matrix work with against multiple entities? Does it have multiple targeted matrices? If multiple extremely high circle Barbarians where in the room would the spell still be able to be cast despite the massive room MR, but would totally miss everything because the targeted matrix/matrices were ripped to nothing?>>
Yes it has a target matrix, the first bolt can be targetted or it can be snap cast with no first targetting just like how you can aim a dual loaded bow or just snap shot it. Yes if multiple or one high barb is in the room you can cause the whole thing to fail Magdar caused mine to fail just walking through the room once and I'm no spring chicken. Also I have missed some barbs completely due to their MR with it, MR is actually underrated alot of the time.
<<It also occurred to me, it's a full TM spell, but yet it does not have to be targeted (just prep, cast) correct? And despite not aiming, why is it still as accurate as it is? How accurate are the bolts compared to an unaimed (just prep, cast) cast of Lightning Bolt? With the recent changes was added the option to target something/someone so the first bolt will be directed at them, but does this actually make the bolt more accurate ala aiming or simply direct it to a specific person instead of being random?>>
It doesn't 'have' to be targetted, the first bolt with be more accurate if it is though. Dunno how accurate it is compared to a snap casted lightning bolt actually so I can't tell ya.. but yes aiming makes the first bolt more accurate, as does targetting any other targetted spell. And yes any other targetted spell can be snap casted without aiming. Honestly CL is by far not our most accurate spell just that when it does it hit does alot of damage and if it barely hits it starts causing nerve damage which makes the later bolts hit easier than they would if you didn't have multiple bolts. It definately can miss to be a Warrior Mage means you need 5 ranks of target per level but also when you get higher in the ranks you need 38 ranks of overall magic per circle which means most have the ability to kill people of other guilds of a similar circle. There are checks in place and it is skill based and most certainly can miss.
Beliel
Yes it has a target matrix, the first bolt can be targetted or it can be snap cast with no first targetting just like how you can aim a dual loaded bow or just snap shot it. Yes if multiple or one high barb is in the room you can cause the whole thing to fail Magdar caused mine to fail just walking through the room once and I'm no spring chicken. Also I have missed some barbs completely due to their MR with it, MR is actually underrated alot of the time.
<<It also occurred to me, it's a full TM spell, but yet it does not have to be targeted (just prep, cast) correct? And despite not aiming, why is it still as accurate as it is? How accurate are the bolts compared to an unaimed (just prep, cast) cast of Lightning Bolt? With the recent changes was added the option to target something/someone so the first bolt will be directed at them, but does this actually make the bolt more accurate ala aiming or simply direct it to a specific person instead of being random?>>
It doesn't 'have' to be targetted, the first bolt with be more accurate if it is though. Dunno how accurate it is compared to a snap casted lightning bolt actually so I can't tell ya.. but yes aiming makes the first bolt more accurate, as does targetting any other targetted spell. And yes any other targetted spell can be snap casted without aiming. Honestly CL is by far not our most accurate spell just that when it does it hit does alot of damage and if it barely hits it starts causing nerve damage which makes the later bolts hit easier than they would if you didn't have multiple bolts. It definately can miss to be a Warrior Mage means you need 5 ranks of target per level but also when you get higher in the ranks you need 38 ranks of overall magic per circle which means most have the ability to kill people of other guilds of a similar circle. There are checks in place and it is skill based and most certainly can miss.
Beliel
DRAGOONSEAL
Re: new cl Vadrik
03/09/2005 03:31 PM CST
>Yes if multiple or one high barb is in the room you can cause the whole thing to fail Magdar caused mine to fail just walking through the room once and I'm no spring chicken.
Are you sure that wasn't before the recent changes to make it a "full TM" spell? Because that would imply it isn't a TM spell, doesn't have a targeted matrix, and is just an area effect spell if he caused it to just outright fail.
Dragoonseal
Are you sure that wasn't before the recent changes to make it a "full TM" spell? Because that would imply it isn't a TM spell, doesn't have a targeted matrix, and is just an area effect spell if he caused it to just outright fail.
Dragoonseal
BELIELZ
Re: new cl Vadrik
03/09/2005 03:54 PM CST
<<Are you sure that wasn't before the recent changes to make it a "full TM" spell? Because that would imply it isn't a TM spell, doesn't have a targeted matrix, and is just an area effect spell if he caused it to just outright fail.>>
I am sure it was before the last change, was before the change before that change actually, but I don't believe it was ever a non-TM spell, not has the spell been changed that drastically. As far as info on the last few little tweaks go I have no testing so others could tell you better than I.
Beliel
I am sure it was before the last change, was before the change before that change actually, but I don't believe it was ever a non-TM spell, not has the spell been changed that drastically. As far as info on the last few little tweaks go I have no testing so others could tell you better than I.
Beliel
BELIELZ
Re: new cl Vadrik
03/09/2005 04:43 PM CST
Before others pipe up and correct me... Yes it was changed so the first bolt can be targetted fully, whereas you couldn't do that before, so it has changed quite a bit in that respect. Shows I should spend more time thinking before I post. Anyway I haven't analyzed the newer version of the Chain Lightning spell in it's entierty so I'll bow out now before I make myself look more foolish than I already have :)
Beliel
Beliel
MYCAT3
Re: new cl Vadrik
03/09/2005 08:37 PM CST
Just in my experiences, CL is more accurate than a single LB. People I can dodge a fully targetted LB from can hit me with CL.
Sslad
Sslad
DARKANGEL80
Re: new cl Vadrik
03/11/2005 12:35 AM CST
>Just in my experiences, CL is more accurate than a single LB. People I can dodge a fully targetted LB from can hit me with CL.
>Sslad
Eh?
[Script]R>stance attack 40
You are now set to attack with 40% of your skill.
[Script]>stance
You are currently using 90% of your evasion skill.
You are currently using 95% of your shield block skill.
You are currently using 0% of your weapon parry skill.
You are attacking with 40% of your offensive skill.
>cast
You gesture.
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
Roundtime: 1 second.
You gesture.
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
Roundtime: 1 second.
You gesture.
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
Roundtime: 1 second.
NOW A FULLY TARGETRED MIN PREP LB, ATTACK STANCE STILL SET AT 40%
You begin to weave mana lines into a target pattern around a bristle-backed peccary.
The formation of the target pattern around a bristle-backed peccary has completed.
>cast
You gesture at a bristle-backed peccary.
A bolt of bluish lightning blazes out of the sky towards a bristle-backed peccary!
The bolt miraculously deflects off a bristle-backed peccary's chest armor!
Roundtime: 2 seconds.
Let you make your own decisions from there.
>Are you sure that wasn't before the recent changes to make it a "full TM" spell? Because that would imply it isn't a TM spell, doesn't have a targeted matrix, and is just an area effect spell if he caused it to just outright fail.
>Dragoonseal
I think area TM spells get resisted twice. Fire rain, for example, I know MR reduces the length of the fire storm. I also know that it reduces accuracy. So your MR weakens the area spell, then helps you dodge each individual attack. I would guess CL is similar. Not something to complain about from the barb side, if you ask me...
>I have been trying to get Vadrik to tell us why they haven't done this but no response. Again, per his post is a targeted spell so rp-wise you could add that option and it would cut down on a lot of conflict.
>Thx.
Have you read posts about lightning storm and the hints that it will be more player/creature friendly? It's a problem and the fix is on the way. What more do you want?
Regards,
A WM
>Sslad
Eh?
[Script]R>stance attack 40
You are now set to attack with 40% of your skill.
[Script]>stance
You are currently using 90% of your evasion skill.
You are currently using 95% of your shield block skill.
You are currently using 0% of your weapon parry skill.
You are attacking with 40% of your offensive skill.
>cast
You gesture.
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
Roundtime: 1 second.
You gesture.
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
Roundtime: 1 second.
You gesture.
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes near a bristle-backed peccary but it manages to get out of the way!
Roundtime: 1 second.
NOW A FULLY TARGETRED MIN PREP LB, ATTACK STANCE STILL SET AT 40%
You begin to weave mana lines into a target pattern around a bristle-backed peccary.
The formation of the target pattern around a bristle-backed peccary has completed.
>cast
You gesture at a bristle-backed peccary.
A bolt of bluish lightning blazes out of the sky towards a bristle-backed peccary!
The bolt miraculously deflects off a bristle-backed peccary's chest armor!
Roundtime: 2 seconds.
Let you make your own decisions from there.
>Are you sure that wasn't before the recent changes to make it a "full TM" spell? Because that would imply it isn't a TM spell, doesn't have a targeted matrix, and is just an area effect spell if he caused it to just outright fail.
>Dragoonseal
I think area TM spells get resisted twice. Fire rain, for example, I know MR reduces the length of the fire storm. I also know that it reduces accuracy. So your MR weakens the area spell, then helps you dodge each individual attack. I would guess CL is similar. Not something to complain about from the barb side, if you ask me...
>I have been trying to get Vadrik to tell us why they haven't done this but no response. Again, per his post is a targeted spell so rp-wise you could add that option and it would cut down on a lot of conflict.
>Thx.
Have you read posts about lightning storm and the hints that it will be more player/creature friendly? It's a problem and the fix is on the way. What more do you want?
Regards,
A WM
MYCAT3
Re: new cl Vadrik
03/11/2005 09:09 AM CST
<<Let you make your own decisions from there.>>
Here's my test.
Starwen gestures at you.
A bolt of bluish lightning blazes out of the sky towards you!
Fully targetted LB misses.
Starwen gestures.
Your ethereal shield crackles with energy!
Your ethereal shield crackles with energy!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes you! The worst of the bolt misses, but tendrils of lightning lash out in passing to scorch your left arm.
A painful tingle shudders through your body!
Your ethereal shield crackles with energy!
Your ethereal shield crackles with energy!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes you! The worst of the bolt misses, but tendrils of lightning lash out in passing to scorch your right hand.
A painful tingle shudders through your body!
Your ethereal shield crackles with energy!
Your ethereal shield crackles with energy!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes you! The worst of the bolt misses, but tendrils of lightning lash out in passing to scorch your left leg.
A painful tingle shudders through your body!
She accidently esed me but no matter, it still hit me when a fully targetted LB missed. If there had been more bolts, the twitching I got woulda made them kill me.
Sslad
Here's my test.
Starwen gestures at you.
A bolt of bluish lightning blazes out of the sky towards you!
Fully targetted LB misses.
Starwen gestures.
Your ethereal shield crackles with energy!
Your ethereal shield crackles with energy!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes you! The worst of the bolt misses, but tendrils of lightning lash out in passing to scorch your left arm.
A painful tingle shudders through your body!
Your ethereal shield crackles with energy!
Your ethereal shield crackles with energy!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes you! The worst of the bolt misses, but tendrils of lightning lash out in passing to scorch your right hand.
A painful tingle shudders through your body!
Your ethereal shield crackles with energy!
Your ethereal shield crackles with energy!
A lurid green bolt of lightning strikes you! The worst of the bolt misses, but tendrils of lightning lash out in passing to scorch your left leg.
A painful tingle shudders through your body!
She accidently esed me but no matter, it still hit me when a fully targetted LB missed. If there had been more bolts, the twitching I got woulda made them kill me.
Sslad
OLESH
Re: new cl Vadrik
03/11/2005 11:29 AM CST
Starwen gestures at you.
A bolt of bluish lightning blazes out of the sky towards you!
I get this occasionally with bandits and warcats. A fully targetted, 30 mana lightning bolt which should kill instantly (or remove a leg) mysteriously whiffs without any evade messaging. It's possible that the bolt is actually missing and I just got a really bad roll. It doesn't happen very frequently.
Anyone who wants to do testing on the accuracy of CL vs LB needs to do more than one cast of each. I have no doubt that against individual targets, CL will come up as an overall more effective spell, but that stands to reason, being a higher tier spell.
In fact, this is a ridiculous argument. CL is a higher tier spell. It's supposed to be better than lightning bolt. If that means it's more accurate, then so be it. I'm not losing any sleep over it. It's shield blockable and LB isn't. I know what I'll use to kill the next paladin that I get in a fight with.
Orpheus: "You've been powering this machine with a forsaken child?"
Venture: "What? It's not like I used the whole thing."
A bolt of bluish lightning blazes out of the sky towards you!
I get this occasionally with bandits and warcats. A fully targetted, 30 mana lightning bolt which should kill instantly (or remove a leg) mysteriously whiffs without any evade messaging. It's possible that the bolt is actually missing and I just got a really bad roll. It doesn't happen very frequently.
Anyone who wants to do testing on the accuracy of CL vs LB needs to do more than one cast of each. I have no doubt that against individual targets, CL will come up as an overall more effective spell, but that stands to reason, being a higher tier spell.
In fact, this is a ridiculous argument. CL is a higher tier spell. It's supposed to be better than lightning bolt. If that means it's more accurate, then so be it. I'm not losing any sleep over it. It's shield blockable and LB isn't. I know what I'll use to kill the next paladin that I get in a fight with.
Orpheus: "You've been powering this machine with a forsaken child?"
Venture: "What? It's not like I used the whole thing."
MYCAT3
Re: new cl Vadrik
03/11/2005 12:08 PM CST
I've been casted on with LB a lot lately, they have all been like that when missing, no evade message or anything. It isn't just a bad roll. I'm not sayin CL shouldn't be better than LB, just saying that it is. I don't really care like some of these whiners out here, just tryin to show some experiments cause they fun to do to help whatever side feels like usin em. I'll get casted on later more and post it.
Sslad
Sslad
OLESH
Re: new cl Vadrik
03/11/2005 02:54 PM CST
Heh. Kill two birds with one stone, Sslad. Come back to Rossman's, I'll find an empath for you and we'll spar. <g>
- Hikuro
Orpheus: "You've been powering this machine with a forsaken child?"
Venture: "What? It's not like I used the whole thing."
- Hikuro
Orpheus: "You've been powering this machine with a forsaken child?"
Venture: "What? It's not like I used the whole thing."
FALLENSHADOWS
Re: new cl Vadrik
03/11/2005 03:08 PM CST
Actually one interesting way to solve this problem would be just to make ball lightning more effective.
Last I checked, although I may be wrong, it wasn't even worth the mana to cast it.
If it was atleast as accurate and powerful as CL without the hitting all at once trick, it'd be an alternative.
Last I checked, although I may be wrong, it wasn't even worth the mana to cast it.
If it was atleast as accurate and powerful as CL without the hitting all at once trick, it'd be an alternative.
JUASON
Re: new cl Vadrik
03/11/2005 11:06 PM CST
Ball lightning is weak, even when cast while raining and with a rising mist up :shrug: If it lasted longer maybe... or something. Its just not worth it because it teaches little TM and only hits with 100% TM and not the 120% seen with LB and other fully targetable spells. Not to mention LB is DFA and CL does nerve damage...
http://www.wowway.com/~dgossiaux/simucon/ - SIMUCON 2004 PHOTOS!!!
http://www.wowway.com/~dgossiaux/simucon/ - SIMUCON 2004 PHOTOS!!!
