LHALLFIN
Need a new tier of boxes.
10/12/2016 06:14 PM CDT
We need either a new tier of boxes or a new critter that drops tougher boxes.
Something in the 1500-1750 range.
Cabbies for the last 700 ranks is just getting old.
GREENAWALTS6
DINERGRRL
Re: Need a new tier of boxes.
10/13/2016 06:14 AM CDT
Once you get to intercessor level, all the "top tier" boxes look the same in terms of difficulty and payout. So yes, ice archons, too.
ASHAMAN1
Re: Need a new tier of boxes.
10/13/2016 06:38 AM CDT
I'd be all for a bigger, badder biped - big moth level with boxes to suit.
Samsaren
Samsaren
DINERGRRL
Re: Need a new tier of boxes.
10/13/2016 06:41 AM CDT
>>I'd be all for a bigger, badder biped - big moth level with boxes to suit.
Seconded, motion carries.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Need a new tier of boxes.
10/13/2016 10:44 AM CDT
>>Once you get to intercessor level, all the "top tier" boxes look the same in terms of difficulty and payout
Does the general payout for mobs as a whole eventually level, or just boxes? I could have sworn that when boxes were recalibrated forever ago, they all followed a similar payout structure so it's not like a critter could have "bad" boxes.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Does the general payout for mobs as a whole eventually level, or just boxes? I could have sworn that when boxes were recalibrated forever ago, they all followed a similar payout structure so it's not like a critter could have "bad" boxes.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
LHALLFIN
Re: Need a new tier of boxes.
10/13/2016 11:38 PM CDT
>Does the general payout for mobs as a whole eventually level, or just boxes? I could have sworn that when boxes were recalibrated forever ago, they all followed a similar payout structure so it's not like a critter could have "bad" boxes.
Boxes have always been a little outside of this because the adjustment comes more often from the critters dropped gems and coins than an increase in box difficulty and payout; as a side note this is also why nuggets in boxes are so horrible [to me]... because they throw the general payout for anything that drops boxes completely in the gutter. Skinning for the win. Big time.
That said I mainly want more exp.
It's not that the tier of Intercessor/Archion/Cabbie is bad... its that its the same difficulty and payout from ~1000 ranks to 1750 ranks.
I'd like something that was more difficult to award more exp per action, but you wouldn't be wrong to say I'd like it to also pay a little better, which I feel would be a good balance with the increased difficulty.
DERIUM
Re: Need a new tier of boxes.
10/14/2016 12:19 AM CDT
> I'd like something that was more difficult to award more exp per action, but you wouldn't be wrong to say I'd like it to also pay a little better, which I feel would be a good balance with the increased difficulty.
Death traps should reward more experience, in my opinion.
Death traps should reward more experience, in my opinion.
ZETHIN01095
Re: Need a new tier of boxes.
10/14/2016 07:42 AM CDT
I'd be happy with nuggets if they at least had a chance to roll lumium/animite/glaes/haralun/kertig similiar to how mining has a chance of digging these up.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Need a new tier of boxes.
10/14/2016 12:36 PM CDT
>>Boxes have always been a little outside of this because the adjustment comes more often from the critters dropped gems and coins than an increase in box difficulty and payout; as a side note this is also why nuggets in boxes are so horrible [to me]... because they throw the general payout for anything that drops boxes completely in the gutter. Skinning for the win. Big time.
My understanding is that it's set up like this, using fuzzy non-real numbers:
X relates to critter difficulty
Loot Value = X
Skin Value = X (with a boost if you arrange)
Loot + Skin Value = X/2, X/2 (with a boost if you arrange)
Box Value = X*(modifier, which improves with the number of traps/locks on a particular box)
Materials/Metals found in boxes or loots throw it off because (1) their appraisal values don't properly correlate with their material type/size, and when you smelt them they may even go down (or up!) in value and (2) they can't be sold for 100% of their value because of GMs didn't want mined ores to sell for 100% their value.
If the loot system went "I want to drop a 1 platinum material" and went "the solution is a small platinum nugget" that would be fine. But instead it goes "uhhhh 1 platinum... drop a medium bronze bar and randomly price it at 5 gold so players can smelt it to its intended 5 silver value or directly sell it for 3 gold!"
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
My understanding is that it's set up like this, using fuzzy non-real numbers:
X relates to critter difficulty
Loot Value = X
Skin Value = X (with a boost if you arrange)
Loot + Skin Value = X/2, X/2 (with a boost if you arrange)
Box Value = X*(modifier, which improves with the number of traps/locks on a particular box)
Materials/Metals found in boxes or loots throw it off because (1) their appraisal values don't properly correlate with their material type/size, and when you smelt them they may even go down (or up!) in value and (2) they can't be sold for 100% of their value because of GMs didn't want mined ores to sell for 100% their value.
If the loot system went "I want to drop a 1 platinum material" and went "the solution is a small platinum nugget" that would be fine. But instead it goes "uhhhh 1 platinum... drop a medium bronze bar and randomly price it at 5 gold so players can smelt it to its intended 5 silver value or directly sell it for 3 gold!"
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DERIUM
Re: Need a new tier of boxes.
10/14/2016 04:43 PM CDT
> Skin Value = X (with a boost if you arrange)
This is an interesting idea. What about arrange [body] for treasure? Give thieves a bonus, and make it more likely to give you a higher value box with increased difficulty for that creature type OR reduce the chance at creating junk items in the box (or body for that matter).
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Need a new tier of boxes.
10/14/2016 07:39 PM CDT
>>This is an interesting idea. What about arrange [body] for treasure? Give thieves a bonus, and make it more likely to give you a higher value box with increased difficulty for that creature type OR reduce the chance at creating junk items in the box (or body for that matter).
I don't think it should be thief specific but it would be interesting to be able to either find "extra" traps/locks on a box for a higher loot score or something.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I don't think it should be thief specific but it would be interesting to be able to either find "extra" traps/locks on a box for a higher loot score or something.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
RCHIGHT
Re: Need a new tier of boxes.
10/15/2016 04:33 PM CDT
You can already LOOT BOXES. To add in the ability to ARRANGE/SKIN for boxes seems somewhat redundant and not actually something that makes sense. Did the critter eat the box or something?
Also, there is a set of players that like having ore found in boxes. It's not always about payout and accumulating plats in the bank. Just saying.
Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!
Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0
Also, there is a set of players that like having ore found in boxes. It's not always about payout and accumulating plats in the bank. Just saying.
Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!
Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0
DERIUM
Re: Need a new tier of boxes.
10/15/2016 04:46 PM CDT
> LOOT BOXES.
Loot boxes doesn't increase box drops or the value of the boxes. It just discards anything that would have dropped if it wasn't a box.
> Also, there is a set of players that like having ore found in boxes. It's not always about payout and accumulating plats in the bank. Just saying.
I can see that. Maybe pull out common metals? If you can buy metal for a fraction of what's in the box then I don't understand why someone would choose the metal over the gem.
Loot boxes doesn't increase box drops or the value of the boxes. It just discards anything that would have dropped if it wasn't a box.
> Also, there is a set of players that like having ore found in boxes. It's not always about payout and accumulating plats in the bank. Just saying.
I can see that. Maybe pull out common metals? If you can buy metal for a fraction of what's in the box then I don't understand why someone would choose the metal over the gem.
LHALLFIN
Re: Need a new tier of boxes.
10/15/2016 07:55 PM CDT
>Also, there is a set of players that like having ore found in boxes.
I get that and that's why I've stopped asking for them to be completely removed I'm just asking they be made to scale better.
Back on topic:
>What about arrange [body] for treasure? Give thieves a bonus, and make it more likely to give you a higher value box with increased difficulty for that creature type OR reduce the chance at creating junk items in the box (or body for that matter).
Something like that would be great.
DEFOL
Re: Need a new tier of boxes.
10/20/2016 03:05 AM CDT
I don't get it though, if minerals are practically worthless to a gem buyer why are they replacing gems in boxes instead of being added as additional loot? That way everyone would be happy and from what i can gather the box loot is only inferior to skins mostly because of minerals.
<< What about arrange [body] for treasure? Give thieves a bonus
I think this only makes things more complicated for something that can be fixed by adding the extra tier. We already have trap harvesting which is supposed to help with exp but personally i don't take advantage of it as much i as i should probably. We all know how it is in the real world with pet boxes etc. Nothing beats that exp wise.
<< What about arrange [body] for treasure? Give thieves a bonus
I think this only makes things more complicated for something that can be fixed by adding the extra tier. We already have trap harvesting which is supposed to help with exp but personally i don't take advantage of it as much i as i should probably. We all know how it is in the real world with pet boxes etc. Nothing beats that exp wise.
LHALLFIN
Re: Need a new tier of boxes.
10/20/2016 09:35 AM CDT
>We already have trap harvesting which is supposed to help with exp but personally i don't take advantage of it as much i as i should probably.
Harvesting only gives perception exp, and the trap parts don't scale at all, by the 50th circle or so it's not worth the extra time it takes. You'd do better just going to get another box.
>We all know how it is in the real world with pet boxes etc. Nothing beats that exp wise.
Pet boxes are not an option past 1200 ranks or so (may change a little depending on buffs, stats and guild) because even the hardest boxes in the game are easy to open with pick blind.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Need a new tier of boxes.
10/20/2016 09:41 AM CDT
>>if minerals are practically worthless to a gem buyer
I'd consider it more a system oversight mixed with a system bug than an intentional decision.
Two things are in play here:
1) To keep people from making serious bank when mining out silver/gold/platinum/animite (vs then converting them into craftable goods via Work Orders), the price of ores has a soft cap. Because there is no difference between a mined gold nugget and a looted gold nugget, the latter suffers from this setup.
2) There is some kind of error/bug with the appraisal values of materials vs what they're actually worth. If a critter goes "I should drop a 1 plat gem", it might drop a huge bronze bar that appraises at 1 plat. But, if you smelt that bar, it's appraisal value corrects itself to what a 5 volume bronze bar at X quality should be valued. The reverse also sometimes happens, where you might get a 5 silver gold nugget that, when smelted, goes up to its actual value of 1 gold (or whatever it's meant to be). So the loot system also needs to assign ores that accurately reflect the values of what critters should be dropping.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I'd consider it more a system oversight mixed with a system bug than an intentional decision.
Two things are in play here:
1) To keep people from making serious bank when mining out silver/gold/platinum/animite (vs then converting them into craftable goods via Work Orders), the price of ores has a soft cap. Because there is no difference between a mined gold nugget and a looted gold nugget, the latter suffers from this setup.
2) There is some kind of error/bug with the appraisal values of materials vs what they're actually worth. If a critter goes "I should drop a 1 plat gem", it might drop a huge bronze bar that appraises at 1 plat. But, if you smelt that bar, it's appraisal value corrects itself to what a 5 volume bronze bar at X quality should be valued. The reverse also sometimes happens, where you might get a 5 silver gold nugget that, when smelted, goes up to its actual value of 1 gold (or whatever it's meant to be). So the loot system also needs to assign ores that accurately reflect the values of what critters should be dropping.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DEFOL
Re: Need a new tier of boxes.
10/26/2016 09:08 AM CDT
<< Harvesting only gives perception exp, and the trap parts don't scale at all, by the 50th circle or so it's not worth the extra time it takes. You'd do better just going to get another box.
Yea, no, harvesting sucks but before coming up with new ideas it would be good to see old systems getting fixed first and to be clear, in no way i'm trying to say that harvesting should be a substitute for adding extra tiers. We definitely need more tiers all around and especially for non combat skills. For example, as far as i know first aid effectively caps out at 400 ranks?
<< Pet boxes are not an option past 1200 ranks or so
Probably a little more than 1200 but i get the idea. I don't think they originally designed locksmithing with 1750 in mind but left a lot of wiggle room to play with. I know Tsaru posted his exp on the boards here and he was locking locksmithing at 1749 in headsplitters.
Yea, no, harvesting sucks but before coming up with new ideas it would be good to see old systems getting fixed first and to be clear, in no way i'm trying to say that harvesting should be a substitute for adding extra tiers. We definitely need more tiers all around and especially for non combat skills. For example, as far as i know first aid effectively caps out at 400 ranks?
<< Pet boxes are not an option past 1200 ranks or so
Probably a little more than 1200 but i get the idea. I don't think they originally designed locksmithing with 1750 in mind but left a lot of wiggle room to play with. I know Tsaru posted his exp on the boards here and he was locking locksmithing at 1749 in headsplitters.
DEFOL
Re: Need a new tier of boxes.
10/26/2016 09:35 AM CDT
<< To keep people from making serious bank when mining
This does make a lot of sense and i can only assume that fixing something like this is not exactly a priority for the developers.
This does make a lot of sense and i can only assume that fixing something like this is not exactly a priority for the developers.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Need a new tier of boxes.
10/26/2016 11:12 AM CDT
>>This does make a lot of sense and i can only assume that fixing something like this is not exactly a priority for the developers.
It's how the selling nuggets worked since mining came out, which has been awhile now.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
It's how the selling nuggets worked since mining came out, which has been awhile now.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
